Megasquirt Standalone Conversions

[CrazyDave 0]

Thought some of you might be interested in how the Megasquirt installation has been going.

 

MegaSquirt ECU is now built, bench tested and on the car (VR6). Because Megasquirt is a generic system it has loads of hardware configuration options which is a bit daunting to start with. Here is a list of the parts I used:

 

MS V3 kit from Glens Garage with 250kPa MAP Sensor.

MS2 CPU

MSnExtra Daugther Board

Idle Valve Driver Board

Simulator Test Board

 

The kit comes complete with all the parts you need. I choose to build my own but ready built units are available for a bit more. Some mods are required to interface the coil pack on a VR but all pretty straight forward.

 

 

OK so I built it all up, pretty easy but deciding build options before starting would have been a good idea.

 

All worked first time, apart from the extra board which had a small solder bubble on a track that was a real git to find (shorted out the power rails).

 

First real problem, I'd figured that if I got the latest hardware and software then all would be great. Wrong. The extra software only works with the early processor. If I'd noticed the small print earlier it does say.. DOH.

 

So ordered an MS1 processor (£10.. really breaks the bank this stuff).

 

I'm using the MSnExtra code which has lots of nice features and uses pretty much all the memory of the MS1 processor.

 

Anyway cutting a long story short it's all working.

 

Boost Control (open and closed loop), Wasted Spark Ignition, ISV (closed loop), Water Inj, Charge Cooler fan control, closed loop wideband etc etc

 

All told it's set me back about £200 in bits and a or two day to build it.

 

The car wiring has been done with an old Motronic ECU box to provide a patch panel. The connector was stripped off the PCB and the Megasquirt cables glanded into the side. The main reason for all this was to preserve the cars original wiring and provide fallback to the Motronic during the early stages (I use this car every day for work). I can change back to Motronic in about 3 minutes! The MS is in the glove box.

 

 

After fixing a few wiring mistakes the car ran, but no idle valve so I had to hold it on the throttle. I managed to fix this by changing one of the resistors on the idle valve driver board. The ISV on the VR is energised to close (ie backwards!). The dash tacho also didn't

work but I hadn't got the right ECU pin so that was easily fixed.

 

The car now starts and runs on it's own.

 

 

The idle hunts a little due to my settings, but I've had a read up on all the different parameters and will have another go soon.

[mrbeige 0]

Good skills that man 8) I'm planning on doing this to my 16v, but need some other bits like ABF mainfold, injectors, fuel rail,throttle body and a wideband. After which should be relatively easy to do. Thinking of putting my own code on mine, as I've had a look at the standard code, and although it works well, it could be better written :wink:

[CoxyLaad 0]

this is more like it!

 

I am really supprised more people arent going this route, as its well cheapo stuff to get into and the potential gains are huge!

[Pau1 0]

Great thread CrazyDave. Keep it coming. Im thinking about going down the Mega Squirt route for my Turbo Conversion but i dont know enough about mapping etc yet. :cheers:

[CoxyLaad 0]

apparently MS does a pretty good job of mapping itself given a few parameters.

you spend the time tweaking it to get it spot on

[DaveVR6 0]

Interesting read. keep the info coming!

[mrbeige 0]

Erm, I might have just ordered a kit!! I'm totally skint, can't afford it, but been meaning to do this for ages, so, sod it!! 8) 8)

[GazzaG60 0]

good stuff mate.

 

i bought mine ready built with extra code from rodney@rsautosport

 

if you plan on it get the wiring loom from them too as it saves loads of hassle.

 

mapping aint to difficult if you have the right tools to feedback info. its the setup of ISV etc that needs carful tweaking with msns where you may get away with lesser setting on more taylor made ecu's

 

you need (ideally)

 

wideband

EGT gauge

boost gauge.

 

these are the devices that tell the story. maybe a knocklink too. aim for 14-5-15:1 for cruise and 11.5-12:1 for on boost. thats safe.

 

there are some general rules of thumb for mapping like -1 degree for every psi. they aint hard and fast but they are a good rule of thumb.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good work Dave 8)

[Yandards 0]

Looking good so far, be interesting to see how this goes as I have only ever heard good things about 'squirt, especially for the amount it costs.

[CrazyDave 0]

Erm, I might have just ordered a kit!! I'm totally skint, can't afford it, but been meaning to do this for ages, so, sod it!! 8) 8)

 

Nice one! Are you still planning on doing your own code?

 

A friend of mine is building a really silly 16v Golf with nitrous (on a really tight budget!). So his will be the next project. Like you say quite a few bits to source but should be good. His will be done with a custom loom without any need to swap back.

 

I still need my O2 sensor sorting. Anybody know the ECU pins for a late model CP Motronic. The Bentley I have seems to be incorrect? The tacho signal was also wrong it's on T68/22 for my ECU.

 

I have a wideband O2 to put on, that will do narrowband emulation, so I can still swap back. Just been a bit cold and wet for exhaust jobs.

 

 

good stuff mate.

if you plan on it get the wiring loom from them too as it saves loads of hassle.

 

mapping aint to difficult if you have the right tools to feedback info. its the setup of ISV etc that needs carful tweaking with msns where you may get away with lesser setting on more taylor made ecu's

 

 

Your not kidding! I messed about for an hour or so the other day on the ISV. But I found some settings for a bosch ISV on vortex, haven't tried them yet but I'll let you know how I get on. I'll do a diagram of the how the settings affect the idle curve, that should help.

 

The looms is a good idea if you're doing a complete rewire.

 

The Glens Garage extra board has EGT, Knock, and separate baro sensor and the spare outputs are all out on connectors with drive transistors for boost valve, water inj, so I went for that one. Bit of a squeeze in the MS box though!

[mrbeige 0]

 

Nice one! Are you still planning on doing your own code?

 

 

I think so yes, gonna get it built up and teted with standard code, then re-do, which should be a bit of fun!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I'd be interested in seeing what the Squirt's knock performance is like. Very few standalones have it and the ones that do have it, it's pants. Motech being one such example. DTA are [reluctantly] working on knock sensing for the S60 and possibly the forthcoming S80, but EGT is a good subsitute in the meantime.

 

Are you going to bother with closed loop sequential? Not many folk bother on the VR. What would also be nice if you can switch off closed loop above TPS & RPM.....

 

I shall be following this closely ;-)

[saysomestuff 0]

 

Nice one! Are you still planning on doing your own code?

 

 

I think so yes, gonna get it built up and teted with standard code, then re-do, which should be a bit of fun!

 

Nice one, wish I could code in C (++++or whatever it's in :)) - If you want to make some money though, you should seriously look into TPS based map switching.

 

it's not currently available but a lot of guys on the msefi forums running ITBs are crying out for software that would run speed density under a certain throttle position and alpha n above. If you knew your way around the code with confidence, I reckon it would be very simple to apply.

 

This would mean that ITB applications can have the best of both worlds - stable fuelling at part throttle and performance at 70% - WOT

[mrbeige 0]

 

Nice one! Are you still planning on doing your own code?

 

 

I think so yes, gonna get it built up and teted with standard code, then re-do, which should be a bit of fun!

 

Nice one, wish I could code in C (++++or whatever it's in :)) - If you want to make some money though, you should seriously look into TPS based map switching.

 

it's not currently available but a lot of guys on the msefi forums running ITBs are crying out for software that would run speed density under a certain throttle position and alpha n above. If you knew your way around the code with confidence, I reckon it would be very simple to apply.

 

This would mean that ITB applications can have the best of both worlds - stable fuelling at part throttle and performance at 70% - WOT

 

I can't see that being a problem theoretically as MS is capable of dual maps, normally for people who want to run nitrous or water injection. A further calibration (probably 2D] could possibly do it too. If you had a map modifier based on throttle position then that could work.

 

Gonna get the bugger first and running on the bench with the standard code, then I'll start having a play about with new code.

[GazzaG60 0]

think its 029q that has the good pwm code for isv in it.

 

for big injectors the hi-res code seems to work ok too.

 

there is knock settings on the ECU kev. but like most ecus if the map is bad or overtimed for the fuel the ecu can do little to stop damage. usually the damage is done before you or the ecu can help it. like the knocklinks. my mate used to import them. you see from the series of lights knock. when you see it you let off. potentially too late.

 

i will be testing the knock settings on MS when im running. probly the easy way of datalogging then hitting the knock sensor with something and seeing if it pulls the timing ive asked.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah my mate had knocklink on his classic and now on his Bugeye STI too.... pretty nifty kit and really simple too.

 

I think the main problem with knock circuits, including OE ones is they're reaction time.... it's often not fast enough, well, certainly not for Force feeding anyway....but yeah I'll be interested to see how you and Dave get on with the Knock on the squirt.

[JIMMI 0]

Im reading this thread with interest, the management side of my car is one of the things i am 100% unsure about, which is why i need to research it as much as possible before i choose which set up im gonna use.

The computer side of life has overtaken me somewhat, the computers i learnt about @ schoo, bear no resembelence to what we have today (im not old either, just turned 28) ! yeah i can do anything i need to do with my PC but when you guys are talking about programming your car it goes straight over my head !! Ive spent my working career working on sportsbikes with my hands, means im handy @ the mechanical side tho !!!

 

Jimmi........................

[Henny 0]

wow, what a superb thread... will be keeping a close eye on this as I've had a couple of silly ideas that this may help to try and get some serious extra power outta my Corrado... 8)

 

Much Kudos to those trying this and posting up their progress and results... 8) :notworthy:

[CrazyDave 0]

The knock sensing on the board is only single channel at the minute but it could be made double channel for the VR dual knock sensors. I've already got ideas for a customised VW orientated expansion board.

 

The knock is really sensitive, you can see it in the logging picture (red line in the bottom trace on page 1). But I've got it disabled so it doesn't mess with the timing yet. It is adjustable via a pot on the board for activation level, so that's something else that needs setting up. Hopefully it won't be quite as twitchy when setup correctly. Seems to be plenty of knock settings in Megatune / MS, even lower the boost control target on knock sensing..

 

 

But I guess most of the stuff on the Glens board would be needed by some:

 

Boost control

4 x outputs for things like cooling fans, tacho signal

Water injection valve

anti lag switch for nitrous

Nitrous solenoid

 

Dual VR sensors

Launch control switch

Second EGO sensor

knock sensor

table switch

EGT

 

And I would like to mount the whole lot in a waterproof box so it can live in the normal place.

[CrazyDave 0]

think its 029q that has the good pwm code for isv in it.

 

for big injectors the hi-res code seems to work ok too.

 

i will be testing the knock settings on MS when im running. probly the easy way of datalogging then hitting the knock sensor with something and seeing if it pulls the timing ive asked.

 

I've seen a few mentions of the hi-res code but haven't looked into that yet. To many other things on the list at the mo. Don't you loose pwm control of the injectors and it's replaced by a high precision injection time?

 

So I'm guessing your replacing your Digifant with MS then?

[GazzaG60 0]

16vt with msns-e had the ms for about 1 yr but not fitted. got most built. gonna update my post of the project soon as i now found a digicam again.

Keith_mac knows a thing or 2 about squirt. i have asked him a few q's in my time. im good with theory but not into electonics so dont know the bits about that. tp122's and all that stuff to replace fidle for isv? who devised that type of mod?

[CrazyDave 0]

16vt with msns-e had the ms for about 1 yr but not fitted. got most built. gonna update my post of the project soon as i now found a digicam again.

Keith_mac knows a thing or 2 about squirt. i have asked him a few q's in my time. im good with theory but not into electonics so dont know the bits about that. tp122's and all that stuff to replace fidle for isv? who devised that type of mod?

 

Mmmm 16vt, nice conversion. My mate is going for the nitrous first on his, but I can see the fully turbo happening pretty soon!

 

I used the Glens Garage driver board, it has space for 4 FET drivers, two come with the kit (both IRFZ34N capable of driving 20A so more than enough). The ISV on the VR is closed when energised (ie reverse to what the MSnS-e does), but the board has an invert function that allows connection of the Bosch ISV directly. Although the board is supplied with 1k pull-up resistors which need to be changed for 10k to get it working correctly.

 

The two spare driver positions are going to be used for Motronic relay trigger and Boost Control Valve.

[CrazyDave 0]

Bl**dy typical, you slip out of the country for a few days and your thread drops into oblivion. Sorry can't spell had far to much of that 19% stuff they have in South Korea!!!

 

Nothing to add to the thread, the C is the other side of the planet sat on the drive while I'm in bl**dy Korea working!!!!!! :mad:

 

Would much rather be a home sorting the C than eating Kimshee or whatever they call it....

[CoxyLaad 0]

I am sure Kimshee appreciates it though ;) :lol: