fry 0 Posted October 19, 2003 I've got a 1.8 16v and toying with the idea of having it pulled apart and rebuilt up to a 2.1L so it has a bit more grunt and feel it would be a lot cheaper than a complete engine swap. My engine has 140k on the clock is it safe to go down this road or would a rebuild involve replacing the bottom end as well as the top too? One other mod i have heard of is to simply replace the 1.8 head with a 2.0 to improve response. Am I on the right lines here??. Any one able to give me some idea of how much these mods will cost? Im probably going to budget about 1000 to 1200 quid for the job is this enough? Brakes will of course be sorted by then and the suspension is already sorted. cheers phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dazzyvr6 0 Posted October 19, 2003 think you would be best buying a 2.0 engine and go from there,get the head gas flowed and some cams that would eat up your 1200 straight away and i think that would be the cheapest option Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 Hello fry being the only corrado (that i know off) that runs a 2.1 16v engine in this country i can safely tell you it will cost way more than £1200 to do the conversion. The best way to go for that monies is to sorce yourself a 9A bottom end from either a corrado passat or some audi thatr run the 9A short block 2L 16v engine. Then get your head fully rebuild everything and port and polish the head inlet and exhuast manifold and you should see 170bhp without probs alot of guys in the CCGB have done this and very happy with the results. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andycowuk 0 Posted October 20, 2003 Alot of people favour the 9a, I have never been in a car with the 9a conversion but I do drive a mk2 with an ABF conversion (mk3 16v engine) - I am not sure why 9a is 1st choice - there are alot of pros and cons 9a has shorter con rods, so bottom end weighs less, so can be reved higher - but sinse your budget is not allowing for that sort of work, that could be ignored. because the ABF has longer con rods there is more torque delivered throughout the rev range - afew small mods and you can get more torque from ABF at any given engine speed than from th 2e (2l 8v) at the same speed. Or to put it another way - once im off, 4th and 5th for me in the town!! I have no reason to beleive the ABF is a better or worse transplant than 9A, but I do know the ABF is good! We are taking the MK2 to the c forrum scottish rr day at the end of next month - I am sure the power figures will be updated on the forum!! You will be able to compare 9A to ABF then! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fry 0 Posted October 20, 2003 Thanks for the replies people, Lets say that I ignore my budget and put the lot on my credit card whats the all in cost of the 2.1 rebuild inc fitting ?? ta phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 hello andrew Well there is a few main reasons why the 9A short block is prefered over the ABA tall block. First of all ive heard it runs slightly less compression and like you said it has longer con rods. So with this you cant get the engine to produce as much power as the short blockcan do. Secondly and my mate is a very good example for this, when we bought his corrado we got told it had a engine replacement but it was certainly a 9A block that was put back in by VW. We took the guys word as the engine number on the engine was covered in crud so we couldnt confirm this but he had recepts for the work carried out. Well a couple of months later on the engine decided to give way which turned out to be a piston just cracked to pieces. On taking the engine out we noticed it was a ABA block that it was put it and the work caried out was crap as they had to modify the engine mounts etc to make it fit. Being that the ABA block sits about 10mm taller they lower the mounts which was casing loads of other problems which were cured straight away when we put a normal 9A block back in. Also the ABA uses alloy head and pistons and not cast iron like the 9A so there not just as strong. Since putting the 9A block back in the car has run alot smother pulls alot better just because it wasnt the right engine. If they hadnt have played with the mounts and put it in then the engine would hit on the bottom of the bonnet. So either way a ABA block in a corrado is not a sensible choice hence why the 9A block is the first option all the time. just my 2p's worth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andycowuk 0 Posted October 20, 2003 y so desperate for 2.1? power gains per £ are not great! 2l bottom end £500 max, head p&p £550ish, emerald stand alone management £400 + 2-3 hours rolling road time = 180-190 BHP as far as I remember 2.1l from bigboystoys-uk is more than £2k - then you have to have your head done and still get some good management to reaaly get the best of it. being the only corrado (that i know off) that runs a 2.1 16v engine what sort of power/torque you getting from that? and are you running throttle bodies or management? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 well fry you have two choices building a 2.1 16v. the first one is the TSR one which only lets you rev up to 6500 rpm and only produces about 170bhp which persoanlly i think is completely pointless. The second one is what I have done. For this you need to start of with a 9A block get yourself 83mm or more pistons (standard is 82 or 82.5mm) fully balance it port and polish and youll end up with about 180-190bhp. My car is producing 190bhp but then im running a high torque cam (due to my engine is built to take a supercharger and i wanted to keep some smoothness) not a high lift (for more power) cam and im also running a DTA system. With a high lift youll prob get about 190-200bhp and youll be able to rev to 8000rpm like i do at the mo even thou ive put the limitter on 7500rpm. For prices im not going to post them up because even reminding me about them make me feel sick how much it cost but to give you a idea you could spend the same sort of money like getting a 1.8T put in your car or turbo charging you engine using audi quattro pistons which i think is a better option than a 1.8T conversion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 im running a DTA with the original inlet and producing 190bhp as for torque in cant remeber from the top of my head. As for rolling road its going to take more than 2-3 hours it took stealth racing 6hours to do mine as there is no map for 16v in the contry but for 1.8T engine there are crap loads Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andycowuk 0 Posted October 20, 2003 There are loads of amps for 2L 16v on throttle boddies - badger5 is the best site to read! I think you can download his old jetta map for free! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andycowuk 0 Posted October 20, 2003 There are loads of maps for 2L 16v on throttle boddies - badger5 is the best site to read! I think you can download his old jetta map for free! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffy 0 Posted October 20, 2003 For prices im not going to post them up because even reminding me about them make me feel sick how much it cost but to give you a idea you could spend the same sort of money like getting a 1.8T put in your car or turbo charging you engine using audi quattro pistons which i think is a better option than a 1.8T conversion. Oh yeah... :roll: Anyway try Grantmotorsport.. hes the bollocks on the rollers. and check out how many Vw cup car engines he builds.. Andy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffy 0 Posted October 20, 2003 There are loads of maps for 2L 16v on throttle boddies - badger5 is the best site to read! I think you can download his old jetta map for free! Tryed it on my Mk1.. and its onlya base map .. and it run's like poo.. your'll need to take your car for a rolling road tune straight away.. and its a right headache.. Try Grantmotorsport though he sorted mine out propper.. Andy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 Hello andrew Yes there is plent of maps for throttle bodies running high lift cams but mines the first one running original inlet manifold and high torque cams. We did try to run one of these maps on my cars and it ran like crap each engine is individual so you still need to map/rolling road time. Also not maps are DTA some are on Emerald and others are mainly the more expensive systems like Motec. Also ruffy/Andu i dont understand your comments??? can you please explain your point??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffy 0 Posted October 20, 2003 aposegil.. I've had a very bad experince with Dta base maps for throttle bodies.. and as i said it ran like sh*te.. Ive seen maps for High lift cams on a 2lt 16v but not a standard 2lt 16v... engines a individual but whats the point in having a base map if it doenst work?? why tell a lie .. why not just say unless your cars runningthis spec .. it ist going to run propperly.. not a dig mate just personal experince.. Andy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 ok i understand that better Yes your correct about it running like crap dont worry ive had my fair share of problems but over time they can be sorted. Also with these aftermarket mapable system you can never have a base map because not one modified engine is the same as the other, but the are similar. Also the reason i didnt go for throttle bodies is there only good for track days for running the engine at the highest rpms. Otherwise for road/fun use the are crap. you have running problems all day long hence why i stuck to the original inlet. Its just not 16v ive heard this happen to even vr engine behave badly to throttle bodies. just out of interest what are you running on your 20v engine?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffy 0 Posted October 20, 2003 Well at least you know how i felt It broke my heart after I spent all that time putting the thing together :cry: .. no matter live and learn.. well i'm running a emerald now... and i luv it... Andy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andycowuk 0 Posted October 20, 2003 My point (however vauge!!)was to fry, not to you aposgil. in the end you have a much better engine than a standardish 9a or abf, but I was highlighting to fry that that is not the only route, and good gains can be had within his specified budget! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 well personally i think its always down to the person that tunes it I think Vince at stealth racing is amazing and certainly knows his stuff also i know your not going to agree with me after having a bad experience but personally i think the DTA is better than the emerald. Even the guy that built my engine has mentioned it but the emerald are easier to run on the 20v engines But then i havent seen any emrald run cars getting over 300bhp on a 20v engine when Vince can get that out of the right 20v all day long. thats how i feel about the system. also did you get yours done by darren in south london??? because i think he is the best with the emerald from what i hear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 yeah i got a bit carried away there Totaly agree with Andrew on that unless you want a headache life stay with the original ECU system as that will work fine with the engine i mentioned above. Another way if you wanted to go is to use a form of digifant system which you would need someone to chip for your engine but even then you stilll might have some problems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffy 0 Posted October 20, 2003 also i know your not going to agree with me after having a bad experience but personally i think the DTA is better than the emerald. Even the guy that built my engine has mentioned it but the emerald are easier to run on the 20v engines But then i havent seen any emrald run cars getting over 300bhp on a 20v engine when Vince can get that out of the right 20v all day long. Dont believe the Hype mate .. As you know its all in the map ... I really dislike tuners that scare monger ... its a a bitch act ... when it comes down to it most ecu do the same thing be it gems emerald or dta.. just a diffrent interface .. and for running more than 300 bhp .. what was the 4wd mk2 20v from dubsport running.. 370bhp I believe .. infact my friend Carl bought the car.. and how much am i running alot more than 300 bhp... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 oh ok well i know its different interface but i cant remember but i though some of the spec was slightly different Also total agree with you that alot of people go into this blind and people get bad experince, like i tell everyone i speak to, is do as much research into it as possible, i kind of knew what i was getting into so wasnt that bad for me. also the dubsport mkII is a modified engine the engines ive seen vince tuning are standed TT 225bhp ones that he gets to run at 300bhp or over. Also im assuming by ur comments the dubsport mkII runs a ememrald system??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffy 0 Posted October 20, 2003 Yep the Carls car runs a emerald... To be honest everyone has there own opinion on ECU's engines and sorts . I'm sure David Walker or Dubsport wouldnt back a sh*te system.. but as shown theres lots of people that are fans of the dta system .. so it must do some thing right Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aposegil 0 Posted October 20, 2003 cool its good to be able to speak to someone about these things Even thou after mareket ECU's are becoming more popular everyday now its go for people to see what others experience first hand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Edwards 0 Posted October 20, 2003 Or - for a lot less money - you could get yourself a set of Kent GF1602R cams, a Miltek exhaust and K&N panel filter. Fit that little lot yourself and 150+bhp can be yours for less than £500... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
