Wheelspin - Traction control broken? (VR6)

[snattrass 0]

Accelerating reasonably hard esp in first I'm spinning the front wheels in a way that I never used to.

 

 

Does this mean my traction control is shagged?

 

 

Or is it because I've got loads of negative camber on the front wheels (leaning in at the top) after I fitted lowering springs resulting in a lesser tyre to road footprint?

 

 

It's pissing me off! As they say power is nothing without control!

 

 

Cheers guys,

 

 

 

Simon.

[dr_mat 0]

Accelerating reasonably hard esp in first I'm spinning the front wheels in a way that I never used to.

 

Does this mean my traction control is shagged?

 

Or is it because I've got loads of negative camber on the front wheels (leaning in at the top) after I fitted lowering springs resulting in a lesser tyre to road footprint?

 

The traction control system on the VR is very low-tech, it only works by applying a small amount of braking force to the wheel that's spinning (yes "wheel" singular), it won't cut engine power like a modern system would. It'll only make any difference at all if you're slipping a single wheel and if you're reading less than 30mph. If you spin both wheels, or the speedo is reading over 30mph it won't even activate.

[VR6 0]

I could be wrong but don't the revs also have to be below a certain level for the "traction control" to function as well?

 

Use the search, yes I know ;)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If you spin both wheels, or the speedo is reading over 30mph it won't even activate.

 

 

You can't spin both wheels simultaneously under power with an open diff.....it's physically impossible :-)

 

If the EDL actually worked, you'd get staggered, single skid marks down the road :lol:

[dr_mat 0]

You can't spin both wheels simultaneously under power with an open diff.....it's physically impossible :-)

 

Not quite sure why you say that.. nothing is impossible. I've spun both wheels at the same time on numerous occasions. Can't be sure they're spinning at *exactly* the same speed of course, but the differential between the speeds of the wheels will be low enough that the EDL won't bother doing anything.

 

But either way the EDL is rubbish. I've never noticed it do anything useful in five years of driving.

[dr_mat 0]

I could be wrong but don't the revs also have to be below a certain level for the "traction control" to function as well?

 

Don't think so - the ABS ecu doesn't (afaik) have any clue what the engine revs are, so it's only going on the wheel speeds reported by it's own sensors.

[Jim Bowen 1]

could be the camber, could be the tyres, could be the greasy roads we have recentley

 

i don't rely/believe the corrado when it says it has TCS :lol:

[dinkus 10]

So nit-picking argument on the inner workings of diffs and the pretty much non-existent traction control system on a Corrado aside... it's almost certainly the camber :lol:

 

Take it to a place with a pukka laser alignment rig and they'll make it drive like new again :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not quite sure why you say that..

 

Because of how they work. Open diffs send all the power to the spinning wheel and the one with the most grip stays still.

 

You may have spun both wheels on snow or sheet Ice as each wheel stops and sends power to the other side, but on normal dry or wet tarmac.....I doubt it very much.

 

And how do you know you're spinning both wheels? Did a pedestrian tell you? Before I fitted my quaife, there was always only 1 wheelspin mark on the road. If yours is leaving two, you can't have an open diff in it.

[VAG-hag 0]

Just out of interest, how much (ish) will that cost?? 8)

[dinkus 10]

Just out of interest, how much (ish) will that cost?? 8)

 

The yokel place near me charges £50, but it can be up to £70 for a full alignment.

[dr_mat 0]

Not quite sure why you say that..

 

Because of how they work. Open diffs send all the power to the spinning wheel and the one with the most grip stays still.

 

Yeah, I learned that at school thanks! But.. a 135k mile diff isn't exactly 100% "open" for a start and secondly you can feel which wheel/wheels is/are spinning through the steering/your arse and thirdly you can HEAR it..!

 

I don't need no bloody quaife owner telling me which wheels I'm spinning thankyouverymuch.. :-P

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, I learned that at school thanks! But.. a 135k mile diff isn't exactly 100% "open" for a start and secondly you can feel which wheel/wheels is/are spinning through the steering/your arse and thirdly you can HEAR it..!

 

I don't need no bloody quaife owner telling me which wheels I'm spinning thankyouverymuch.. :-P

 

So your school taught you an open diff becomes "less open" with mileage? :lol: That statement makes no sense at all. You've obviously never taken an 02A box apart and seen how the diff works have you?

 

I can't tell which wheels are spinning and I'm surprised you can either as you claim you're getting 35 or what even MPG from yours :lol:

[Supercharged 2]

Sh1t tyres Vs cold road temp...?

[VR6 0]

From an existing thread, this is what my comment above was based on:

 

The EDL only works under a certain throttle limit too. For instance, at WOT it doesn't even bother trying. I think it's less that 50% throttle it works (i'm quite sure its lower than that, but cant remember)

 

The only time i've had it work was in snow at low speed and small amounts of throttle usage!!! It almost makes a groaning noise whens it working as if to say.. "I cant rely be botheres with this!!"

 

Timo.

[snattrass 0]

Thanks guys! (Didn't mean to start a WMD type debate!)

 

 

I think u r right that it's most likely to be the camber. But y is the camber so much out after lowering it? I mean I've had laser alignment readings but there's really no camber adjustment for the front struts is there? Just 2 bolts at the bottom and that's it? And after lowering it mine is miles into negative camber - miles in at the top! Maybe I have to make slots in the bottom strut mounting to enable them to pull in more at the bottom!

 

 

Frutstrated!

[dinkus 10]

You've got almost 10 degrees camber adjustment on the front struts - so there's a considerable amount of room :)

 

It'll be miles out if you've lowered it because the points that connect to the strut were once parallel and are now at an angle relative to each other, so they will pull the top of the strut in.

[dr_mat 0]

So your school taught you an open diff becomes "less open" with mileage? You've obviously never taken an 02A box apart and seen how the diff works have you?

 

I can't tell which wheels are spinning and I'm surprised you can either as you claim you're getting 35 or what even MPG from yours :lol:

 

Doesn't really matter what my school said.. just saying that it's not exactly a frictionless device, particularly with a significant amount of wear on the bearings.

 

And I never said I got 35mpg ALL the time! ;)

 

I don't think it's beyond comprehension to light up both front wheels on a car with the torque of a VR, limited slip diff or otherwise. You only have to put torque onto the diff at a *rate* that overcomes the wheel that slips first's ability to soak up the inertia by spinning it off, and bingo, both wheels spinning, smoke, car moving sideways. It's not hard. (Nor is it clever..! ;) )

[dr_mat 0]

I think u r right that it's most likely to be the camber. But y is the camber so much out after lowering it? I mean I've had laser alignment readings but there's really no camber adjustment for the front struts is there? Just 2 bolts at the bottom and that's it? And after lowering it mine is miles into negative camber - miles in at the top! Maybe I have to make slots in the bottom strut mounting to enable them to pull in more at the bottom!

 

It's caster angle you can't easily adjust; the camber is simple as dinkus already said. The two bolt holes in the hub assembly are elongated so you can slide the bolts back and forth. Any decent laser alignment shop should be able to do this for you.

[Toad 0]

I'm pretty sure I've had my VR spinning both front wheels in the wet, with shoddy camber and plop tyres.

 

Anyway. Get on and sort the alignment out, it'll make a world of difference. How're you getting on with her anyway mate? Pleased so far?

[snattrass 0]

Dinkus, Dr Mat thank you!

 

 

Finally, someone tells me what on earth I need to do to pull it in at the bottom. Actually today a local garage man told me something simliar after every other garage I asked told me that's just what to expect when u lower it but, of course, I never really believed that and it's better and more reassuring to hear it off u guys on this board!

 

 

Is there an exploded diagram or something showing me the caster angle bit to move or show the camber mechanic which bit to do. Now all I need to do is decide what shocks to put on with the PI springs that I currently have on to make the ride half decent (on the current ride I have no teeth!). Just want something inexpensive but half decent and then I can get the whole thing properly put together and straight and solid!

 

 

Cheers guys. Very much appreciated.

 

 

Simon.

[boost monkey 0]

Cheesey:

 

 

Dr_Mat:

 

 

Now, both of you behave or there's no dinner and definitely no driving! :lol:

 

Back to topic:

 

Factory parameters for the VR are:-

 

Castor - +3.25 +/- 0.30

 

Toe out on turns - minus 1.30 +/- 0.20

 

Camber - minus 1.20 +/-0.20 (I've found 0.75 to be a good setting when lowered)

 

Toe - 0.00 +/- 0.05

 

Hope that helps

 

K

 

 

:thumb right:

[snattrass 0]

Boost Monkey, Cheesewire,

 

 

How can I say it politely, that's flipin sexual that mate those settings r really doing it for me! Hiking with a map now mate - no mind blowingly frustrating guess work! This forum is sooo good!

 

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

Toad mate - loving her! Just need to iron out these wrinkles etc!

 

 

Si

[snattrass 0]

But how do they test castor? I don't recall the laser print out including the castor reading! And the laser sensors are placed on the wheels so how do they test for castor alignment? Cheers.

[dinkus 10]

I don't think you can adjust the castor, that's just what it should be.