Vortech charged VR or R32 engine conversion??

[jamminvr6storm 0]

Is Turbo in a VR more hard work and more costley than a charger?

 

The basic answer to that is YES!

 

...But it depends how you build it and how good you are with the spanners.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

depends on the charger,but yes the VF is a plug and play in one day and fun,fun,fun! and its cheaper,lots of bargains to be had at the mo!

 

But the sort of power you get from a VF you could turbo a VR without intercooler,short runner etc for similar money.

 

Lad on the VROC did his for under a grand,and has over 300hp

[MK1Campaign 0]

Had a good chat with Vince today as he just finished a conversion using the factory management.

Its looking like im gonna go R32. The one they just completed was with the MK5 parts. Apparently doing it with MK4 parts makes it a lot easier.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Im sure there will be more threads like this in the future :lol:

[_leon_ 0]

This is the most interesting thread I've read in some time on here, keep the opinions coming!

[KipVR 1]

I've always loved my Corrado, but always thought the VR engine was the weak point, just not quite fast enough and too front heavy.

 

When my VR finally said it's had enough i was deciding weather or not to go R32 power, it was for these reasons I chose the 3.2:- Both came to the same cost wise.

 

1. It's smoother

2. It's going to be more reliable than a re-built VR.

3. It's lighter.

4. It has more tuning potential should you wish to up the power further.

5. The ECU has CAN-BUS capability (for later fitting of DSG/Traction control etc :D ). (I'm not junking the VAG ECU in favour of aftermarket management)

6. It's got just the right amount of power for a FWD whilst keeping reliability.

7. Fit's in no problems/modifications/intercoolers/heat.

8. It's quiet.

9. It will increase the value of the car more than a rebuilt VR.

 

Ok im not going to argue this to much but..

 

1. It's smoother

 

Probably in standard form,but with short runner and 263 in N/A form its super smooth and turbod its very smooth,nothing like the original motor.

 

2. It's going to be more reliable than a re-built VR.

 

Sorry i dont get that,how will it be? Rebuilt fresh and new will be less reliable as a used motor?

 

3. It's lighter.

 

Hardly..and its still a heavy motor for the front end,if your bothered about weight then the R32/VR is not ideal.

 

4. It has more tuning potential should you wish to up the power further.

 

True,but anything over 350hp is stupid fast,but if your power hungry then go for it,but get a go out in a turbo VR with 400 hp then you will think why more...honest :ignore:

 

5. The ECU has CAN-BUS capability (for later fitting of DSG/Traction control etc :D ). (I'm not junking the VAG ECU in favour of aftermarket management)

 

Cant argue there,brill ECU's

 

6. It's got just the right amount of power for a FWD whilst keeping reliability.

 

Still this reliability thing,even modified 12v can roll out big power with just spacer plate and hardware all day long,relibable? hell yea!

 

7. Fit's in no problems/modifications/intercoolers/heat.

 

So does the 12v :tongue:

 

8. It's quiet.

 

Yip your right the 12v in worn form can sound top end rattly.

 

9. It will increase the value of the car more than a rebuilt VR.

 

So does a turbo.. :camp:

 

Not having a go mate,just i think its to much work for 12 valves more :wink:

 

Hey I don't care chap you're welcome to your opinion :D

 

However most of your arguements are a bit pointless as i wasn't talking about a turbo conversion :wink: I was merely talking about the reasons (no matter how big or small) that I took into account when choosing to install a 3.2 over a 12V re-build. I didn't mention a turbo anywhere other than for future possibilities.

 

PS, it's about 18 kilos lighter according to my scales, which I consider to be a lot over the front wheels. I guess it's mainly the saved weight from the Inlet manifold (and the bigger bores :grin: ) And yes I would easily place a bet that a re-built 12V built by hand for a reasonable amount of money will be less reliable than one almost fresh out of a factory with far stricter quality control and procedure putting it together.

[KipVR 1]

Had a good chat with Vince today as he just finished a conversion using the factory management.

Its looking like im gonna go R32. The one they just completed was with the MK5 parts. Apparently doing it with MK4 parts makes it a lot easier.

 

That would make it a seriously nice corrado.

[jamminvr6storm 0]

Had a good chat with Vince today as he just finished a conversion using the factory management.

Its looking like im gonna go R32. The one they just completed was with the MK5 parts. Apparently doing it with MK4 parts makes it a lot easier.

 

That would make it a seriously nice corrado.

 

IIRC from what I heard when I considered going R32 (admittedly a while back now) the MK5 makes better power then the MK4. I remember hearing this from Storm Developments who have done both conversions!

[MK1Campaign 0]

Had a good chat with Vince today as he just finished a conversion using the factory management.

Its looking like im gonna go R32. The one they just completed was with the MK5 parts. Apparently doing it with MK4 parts makes it a lot easier.

 

That would make it a seriously nice corrado.

 

Im hoping so. I was going to get wide wheels and silly brakes with the charger install but now im going 32 will stay with the OEM look.

[pete_griff 0]

to "reliably" charge a 12v, you should really want a rebuild unless you have a very low mileage car.

 

granted a rebuilt 12v should be as reliable as a factory 24v - but lets face it, which would you rather have if someone said drive as far in that as you possibly can without it breaking down!

 

the r32 has far superior burn characteristics etc due to the newer lovely design of the head and newer ecu - ask kev there if you want to know more!

 

i would say surely that to charge a VR would cost the same as sorting an r32 lump unless you can source a charger on the cheap (ask herisites about sourcing cheap chargers! no offence or anything meant there by the way mr herisites!). then you've got the cost of the rebuild of the VR to think about on top of sourcing the charger and then getting the engine remapped. also the chargers are limited in power unless you go adding things like intercoolers/chargecoolers, at which point don't you have to think about new injectors... the FI list goes on.

 

all that when you can just buy an r32 lump and it will fit straight in - all you have to worry about is the exhaust and the wiring - neither of which are major headaches now.

 

also fuel economy - not something which you should really worry about when driving a charged 2.9 or a 3.2, but the r32 would surely return a much much better figure than the 12v

 

admittedly, it's reasonably simple to do both types of install, and personally i don't think that one is particularly more work than the other. but once you've finished it all, in my mind anyway - there's only one lump out of the two i would like under my bonnet.

 

:D

[pete_griff 0]

Had a good chat with Vince today as he just finished a conversion using the factory management.

Its looking like im gonna go R32. The one they just completed was with the MK5 parts. Apparently doing it with MK4 parts makes it a lot easier.

 

That would make it a seriously nice corrado.

 

hehe - i do hope so - you can find out when you see mine before long ;)

 

don't see why it's horrifically more difficult with mk5 bits-n-bobs - only real difference is the PAS/alternator bracket and the fuel presure regulator - both easy fixes....

[MK1Campaign 0]

Pete have you got your Brembos behind the RX yet?

I have the same wheels and need to think about brakes.

[pete_griff 0]

Pete have you got your Brembos behind the RX yet?

I have the same wheels and need to think about brakes.

 

not yet i'm afraid buddy, still on 312's - waiting for karl to sort his corrado out so he can come down to me so we can do the swap. if he doesn't get it sorted before i finish mine, then i'll drive mine up to him for the swap - hopefully know before long my friend! - apparently you need something like 13m spacers to run the brembos behind the RX's, which karl will be supplying with the brakes...

 

will not be much clearance methinks! :D

 

edit - karl was running the brembos behind 17" bbs RC's - should be more or less identical!

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Its all a bit tit for tat at the end of the day,its up to the person who decides on the conversion for what ever reason, either for fuel economy ,power gains, cost or just to be in the scene doesn

[MK1Campaign 0]

Pete have you got your Brembos behind the RX yet?

I have the same wheels and need to think about brakes.

 

not yet i'm afraid buddy, still on 312's - waiting for karl to sort his corrado out so he can come down to me so we can do the swap. if he doesn't get it sorted before i finish mine, then i'll drive mine up to him for the swap - hopefully know before long my friend! - apparently you need something like 13m spacers to run the brembos behind the RX's, which karl will be supplying with the brakes...

 

will not be much clearance methinks! :D

 

edit - karl was running the brembos behind 17" bbs RC's - should be more or less identical!

 

Cheers. Something to be thinking about.

[pete_griff 0]

for what ever reason, either for fuel economy ,power gains, cost or just to be in the scene doesn

[jamminvr6storm 0]

to "reliably" charge a 12v, you should really want a rebuild unless you have a very low mileage car.

 

...also the chargers are limited in power unless you go adding things like intercoolers/chargecoolers, at which point don't you have to think about new injectors... the FI list goes on.

 

Right, dont get me wrong here im just expressing an opinion....

 

I done agree with the above!

 

You do not need to rebuild a 12v to reliably supercharge it, you might need to check you have a decent idle valve and maf although these days you can get them remapped to run without a maf!

 

You can go 8psi, which yes does limit power but only to 300bhp which is more then you get from a remapped mk4 R32 anyway! And 8psi requires no chargecooler, no intercooler, no water injection and no reduction in compression! Oh and you could probably get away with a rising rate fuel regulator which means you wouldnt even need bigger injectors (although if your buying a charger kit the injectors normally come with)

 

Just my 2 pennies....

[pete_griff 0]

Pete have you got your Brembos behind the RX yet?

I have the same wheels and need to think about brakes.

 

not yet i'm afraid buddy, still on 312's - waiting for karl to sort his corrado out so he can come down to me so we can do the swap. if he doesn't get it sorted before i finish mine, then i'll drive mine up to him for the swap - hopefully know before long my friend! - apparently you need something like 13m spacers to run the brembos behind the RX's, which karl will be supplying with the brakes...

 

will not be much clearance methinks! :D

 

edit - karl was running the brembos behind 17" bbs RC's - should be more or less identical!

 

Cheers. Something to be thinking about.

 

i'm unsure exactly what the figures are - best to ask kev or someone else running them, but AP's have a fair bit more clearance than the brembos i think. the brembos are fantastic brakes though and reasonably well available, which makes things a little more easy...

 

 

 

to "reliably" charge a 12v, you should really want a rebuild unless you have a very low mileage car.

 

...also the chargers are limited in power unless you go adding things like intercoolers/chargecoolers, at which point don't you have to think about new injectors... the FI list goes on.

 

Right, dont get me wrong here im just expressing an opinion....

 

I done agree with the above!

 

You do not need to rebuild a 12v to reliably supercharge it, you might need to check you have a decent idle valve and maf although these days you can get them remapped to run without a maf!

 

You can go 8psi, which yes does limit power but only to 300bhp which is more then you get from a remapped mk4 R32 anyway! And 8psi requires no chargecooler, no intercooler, no water injection and no reduction in compression! Oh and you could probably get away with a rising rate fuel regulator which means you wouldnt even need bigger injectors (although if your buying a charger kit the injectors normally come with)

 

Just my 2 pennies....

 

hey not arguing - this is a "forum" after all :lol:

 

however.....

surely unless you have a car with like 50-80k on the clock, surely you would want to think about having a head refresh and chains/tensioners/clutch at least for safety and peace of mind before strapping on a charger....

 

also - yes you will get about 300bhp with a basic charger kit - but i hope to see at least 280ish with my mk5 r32 (maybe a bit more depending on who maps it and the fact i have lots of shiny bits fitted eg. pulleys, flywheel, helix, sports cats, bmc); then there's the extra weight of the 12v plus the charger over the r32 and the fact that the r32 makes good power lower down the rev range - i recon there would be very little in it between the two...

[KipVR 1]

Brembos fit no problem behind the RX's Ben.

[pete_griff 0]

Brembos fit no problem behind the RX's Ben.

 

you do still need spacers though don't you? - at least that's what i was told!

[jamminvr6storm 0]

 

to "reliably" charge a 12v, you should really want a rebuild unless you have a very low mileage car.

 

...also the chargers are limited in power unless you go adding things like intercoolers/chargecoolers, at which point don't you have to think about new injectors... the FI list goes on.

 

Right, dont get me wrong here im just expressing an opinion....

 

I done agree with the above!

 

You do not need to rebuild a 12v to reliably supercharge it, you might need to check you have a decent idle valve and maf although these days you can get them remapped to run without a maf!

 

You can go 8psi, which yes does limit power but only to 300bhp which is more then you get from a remapped mk4 R32 anyway! And 8psi requires no chargecooler, no intercooler, no water injection and no reduction in compression! Oh and you could probably get away with a rising rate fuel regulator which means you wouldnt even need bigger injectors (although if your buying a charger kit the injectors normally come with)

 

Just my 2 pennies....

 

hey not arguing - this is a "forum" after all :lol:

 

however.....

surely unless you have a car with like 50-80k on the clock, surely you would want to think about having a head refresh and chains/tensioners/clutch at least for safety and peace of mind before strapping on a charger....

 

also - yes you will get about 300bhp with a basic charger kit - but i hope to see at least 280ish with my mk5 r32 (maybe a bit more depending on who maps it and the fact i have lots of shiny bits fitted eg. pulleys, flywheel, helix, sports cats, bmc); then there's the extra weight of the 12v plus the charger over the r32 and the fact that the r32 makes good power lower down the rev range - i recon there would be very little in it between the two...[/quote:2g5x8wkq]

 

 

LOL... Pete,

 

I recon the 12v with charger would produce the same tourque figures as the R32 set up but the charged 12v would have more bhp

 

...As for the extra weight.... it helps you get the power down :lol: :lol:

 

Well done for going MK5 tho fella, its more difficult but its the best way to go if you want R32 power :notworthy:

[pete_griff 0]

 

 

Right, dont get me wrong here im just expressing an opinion....

 

I done agree with the above!

 

You do not need to rebuild a 12v to reliably supercharge it, you might need to check you have a decent idle valve and maf although these days you can get them remapped to run without a maf!

 

You can go 8psi, which yes does limit power but only to 300bhp which is more then you get from a remapped mk4 R32 anyway! And 8psi requires no chargecooler, no intercooler, no water injection and no reduction in compression! Oh and you could probably get away with a rising rate fuel regulator which means you wouldnt even need bigger injectors (although if your buying a charger kit the injectors normally come with)

 

Just my 2 pennies....

 

hey not arguing - this is a "forum" after all :lol:

 

however.....

surely unless you have a car with like 50-80k on the clock, surely you would want to think about having a head refresh and chains/tensioners/clutch at least for safety and peace of mind before strapping on a charger....

 

also - yes you will get about 300bhp with a basic charger kit - but i hope to see at least 280ish with my mk5 r32 (maybe a bit more depending on who maps it and the fact i have lots of shiny bits fitted eg. pulleys, flywheel, helix, sports cats, bmc); then there's the extra weight of the 12v plus the charger over the r32 and the fact that the r32 makes good power lower down the rev range - i recon there would be very little in it between the two...

 

 

LOL... Pete,

 

I recon the 12v with charger would produce the same tourque figures as the R32 set up but the charged 12v would have more bhp

 

...As for the extra weight.... it helps you get the power down :lol: :lol:

 

Well done for going MK5 tho fella, its more difficult but its the best way to go if you want R32 power :notworthy:

 

 

yeah i'll agree with those figures - if i'm honest i'm really hoping for more than the 280 i said because of all the nice bits i've got, but i'm just being conservative so i'm not disappointed!....

 

as for getting the power down on launch - my quaife will be helping me put the power down! ;)

 

cheers for the encouraging words - really just can't wait to get it finished off now :D

 

really want to drive my car side by side with a charged example once it's all done!

[jamminvr6storm 0]

 

 

LOL... Pete,

 

I recon the 12v with charger would produce the same tourque figures as the R32 set up but the charged 12v would have more bhp

 

...As for the extra weight.... it helps you get the power down :lol: :lol:

 

Well done for going MK5 tho fella, its more difficult but its the best way to go if you want R32 power :notworthy:

 

 

yeah i'll agree with those figures - if i'm honest i'm really hoping for more than the 280 i said because of all the nice bits i've got, but i'm just being conservative so i'm not disappointed!....

 

as for getting the power down on launch - my quaife will be helping me put the power down! ;)

 

cheers for the encouraging words - really just can't wait to get it finished off now :D

 

really want to drive my car side by side with a charged example once it's all done!

 

 

Yeah, putting the 2 side by side would be very interesting mate...

 

I went for the Wavetrac diff over the Quaife which I find superb, no loss through open diff under driveshaft bounce 8)

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

really want to drive my car side by side with a charged example once it's all done!

 

:wave:

[Philmo 0]

Well - my st1 V9 with VGI & 263's is superb now I've sorted blower suction & delivery pipework and MAF oiling problems. :D

However - I don't think it'll ever be as smooth or torquey low down as my daily 24v Bora.

For me - go R36! [Lizard's is the one to watch!] :norty: