Track tyres worth it on a 15" wheel or should i just go 17"?

[dukest 0]

So, I've had a scruffy set of Solitudes hanging around for ages and having been round Silverstone last weekend with a mate in his car on Toyo R888s the decision is clearly made in my head that i need some :)

 

However, I'm just wondering if a 50 profile sidewall on a 15" wheel is going to restrict the cornering benefit that I'll get from the tyres and whether I would be noticably better off going for 17" wheels with a lower profile tyre?

 

I am vaguely tempted by better(bigger) brakes at the moment, but realistically i cant afford them at the same time as new wheels to fit over them. So for this year i dont "need" bigger wheels and maybe i'm better off going with the cheaper smaller tyre size on the wheels i've got rather than worrying about "going large" right now?

 

If the difference of a lower profile was enough then I'd look for some cheapo 17s but if not then i'll stay standard(ish :)). Anyone with track knowledge of 15" Toyo R888s or similar?? These arent for daily use, just track days.

 

Cheers!

John

[Joe M 0]

Its worth it, the sidewalls on track tyres are considerably stiffer than normal road tyres, and there a softer compound with less grooves meaning more of the tyre in contact with the surface. Just make sure you have a baffled sump as the extra cornering g's will cause oil starvaition on a vr with a standard sump.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Just make sure you have a baffled sump as the extra cornering g's will cause oil starvaition on a vr with a standard sump.

 

The R32 sump and pump combo solves that issue quite nicely. All OE parts, so reliable, well made and spares readily available. The other benefit is greatly increased ground clearance. Well above subframe level.

[The_Dude 0]

Just make sure you have a baffled sump as the extra cornering g's will cause oil starvaition on a vr with a standard sump.

 

The R32 sump and pump combo solves that issue quite nicely. All OE parts, so reliable, well made and spares readily available. The other benefit is greatly increased ground clearance. Well above subframe level.

 

 

Its meant to be pretty flimsy though isn't it?

[Joe M 0]

Id go with Kevs suggestion, if your bottoming out a sump that sits above the subframe id be worried about more than damaging just that.

[dukest 0]

cheers guys. good point about the sump, i wont be doing it too often but i was aware of the issue so will keep it in mind.

 

in case it wasn't clear, i meant that i'd be putting the track tyres on in any case, just whether there was noticable difference putting them on a 17 vs a 15in rim?

[The_Dude 0]

Less sidewall, less flex imo, more predictable turn in.

Are they gonna be more expensive tho?

[Joe M 0]

go for the 17"s if you plan on upgrading to bigger brakes that wont fit behind 15"s. If your not going to go to the bigger brakes id stick with the wheels youv got and spend the money elsewhere.

[vwdeviant 0]

Id go with Kevs suggestion, if your bottoming out a sump that sits above the subframe id be worried about more than damaging just that.

 

Like your feet! :gag:

 

 

 

15 vs 17.. consider weight of complete wheel/tyre package too!

 

John, you'll burn a set of 888's in a couple track days so pick teh cheapest option, go with 15's and if they make a big difference then upgrade to some cheap light 17 (Team dymanics, or similar) and tyres..

[dukest 0]

well i appear to have just won some team dynamics on ebay so the decision might have been made :) the tyres are definitely more expensive but i guess even if i had them on 15s then the additional grip would just have made me kill the 288s quicker, better start saving :grin:

[corozin 0]

Hi John,

Just stick with the 15's for the moment as it's a relatively cheap experiment & you may not be using them too often.

 

Don't worry about baffling your sump - just make sure the level is topped up before you go onto the track & then check it during the day. The baffled sump on a Corrado is an old wives tale (even though I have one myself).

 

But before you go out try and check underneath that all the bushes, hoses & cables are all in good condition & nothing's close to rubbing. If anything is leaking get it fixed. Also take a spare set of front pads with you (and tools) in case you toast them during the day. Frankly if you have anything mush less than new pads you could well burn them up in the course of a whole day if you drive hard.

 

Other thoughts for you:

1) Take it easy on track with the R888s. If you overdrive and slide the car in your enthusiasm for track driving you may shred the fronts down to the canvas in as little as 70 miles. Nice smooth inputs through the steering, using fingers rather than grip the wheel to feel out the optimum input. With these tyres you extract the performance by using the the extra grip, not by sliding about.

 

2) Before you go to the track put the wheels on for at least 2-3 weeks and run the tyres in. Run them through some heat cycles, wear them in a little bit and get used to the feel. If you havvn't actually driven with this kind of tyre before you'll be surprised how different they feel to road tyres. They tramline a lot more for a start. If you just put them on new & go on track you'll kill them quickly.

 

3) Set the correct pressures in the tyres (30-32psi minimum front & back) and work them up to temperature over 2-3 laps before going hard. These tyres work at an optimum temp of 50-90deg. There's a download pdf on the Toyo website that tells you how to look after them if you're interested.

 

4) Bear in mind the extra grip from the R888's puts lots of strain on all the rest of the drivetrain; brakes, shafts, ARBs, gearbox, CV, bushes and suspension will all take a complete pounding on track and even more so with these kinds of tyres. If you car is mega low (and from recollection of your car last time I saw it I think you might be close on this) you may well get rubbing in the arches as the suspension compresses more than it ever has before. If you and adjust it try and make sure you have at least thumb clearance from tyre to the arche when parked.

 

5) If this is your first track day, do try and grab an instructor if one is available. There's no loss of dignity involved, and you will learn more in 20 minutes with an expert about fast & safe driving than you will in years on the road. You'll also probably end up going a lot faster than you ever thought yourself possible, and they'll show you how to preserve those lovely R888s a bit too.

 

Good luck fella-

John

[corozin 0]

Id go with Kevs suggestion, if your bottoming out a sump that sits above the subframe id be worried about more than damaging just that.

Like your feet! :gag:

15 vs 17.. consider weight of complete wheel/tyre package too!

 

John, you'll burn a set of 888's in a couple track days so pick teh cheapest option, go with 15's and if they make a big difference then upgrade to some cheap light 17 (Team dymanics, or similar) and tyres..

 

Trust me if you have anything left from a set of R888s at the end of a single trackday you should have been driving faster. I'm lucky if I have legal tread to drive home with (and have driven straight from track to the tyrefitters on a couple of occasions to have my spares fitted!)

 

It's actually a good tip to know where the nearest tyre fitter is to your track location if you go. Indeed it's a good idea to know where the nearest petrol station is as well...

 

John

[dukest 0]

Thanks John, was hoping you'd be able to give the benefit of your experience with them. I have a feeling that using them would very quickly highlight how dismally bad non-4pot brakes are and lead me to change them soon anyway. I just dont know whether to mess around with wilwoods or hi-spec that will fit under 15s or get some larger brembos or similar from a more modern car..

 

The other thing I'm unsure about is if i go down this route is whether KWv1s are really appropriate suspension. I'd still like it to be reasonable to drive but noted what you'd said on another thread about track tyres requiring higher spring rates since they would cause more compression. At the moment I have Koni/H&R which is still fine but just not that low. Apart from a bit more drop i wonder if the KWs would actually be worth doing now i'm considering this direction.

 

One interesting thing i learnt after ringing the people that I was planning to buy the tyres from (Rotation) was that from about a month ago apparently Toyo are now restricting who they will be supplying the R888s to. If true they are only supplying via recognised motorsports outlets and to people who are involved in some kind of trackday group or club. It sounds a little tenuous and Demon Tweeks claimed not to have heard of it but I'll wait to see how easy it will actually be to get hold of some.

 

Cheers

John

[millerman 0]

oddly i have heard this too my local tyre shop can get any tire i want apart from the r888 of which i have on the corrado

i asked him for a price on them 2 weeks ago and he said that toyo would not supply him the r888

he did not say why

ps i have the 205 40 17's have not tested them yet on the road but am looking forward to it !

[corozin 0]

I havn't heard about the restriction of supply for R888s. My local supplier down here is the main Toyo agent for the area. It could well be that supply is being restricted to the main agents (these supply all the other local trade outlets).But I'm sure I recall seeing a distributor list of Toyo agents on the R888 page of Toyo's website a few years ago. That would certainly be worth looking for.

 

Alternatively if you are still stuck then give Simon at Mike Stokes Motosports down here a call (01202-547555) as if they can't point you as to where to find a local agent they may be able to ship you a set or something.

 

Personally John I'd buy a set of normal/cheapy tyres for the solitudes at this point rather than the R888s. As you say there are other things which are more worth spending the money on (like better brakes or an oil cooler) and to an extent if you are new to track days it's nice to be able to slide it around a bit and get it all out of your system while you learn track craft.

 

HTH

John

[dukest 0]

fair point, although the temptation for something more capable is quite strong..

 

what kind of tyre should i aim if it wasnt a track tyre? i'm guessing a cheap soft tyre would go to mush a bit on a track? i had some dunlops on before which i always thought were quite hard but maybe they'd hold up ok under a lot of strain?

 

without the solid sidewall of the R888 i'm back to the 17 vs 15 dilemma!

[The_Dude 0]

I thought we had enough "fun" with sliding at Snetterton! :D

[dukest 0]

well this is the reason for trying to be better equipped next time!!

[_leon_ 0]

Just make sure you have a baffled sump as the extra cornering g's will cause oil starvaition on a vr with a standard sump.

 

The R32 sump and pump combo solves that issue quite nicely. All OE parts, so reliable, well made and spares readily available. The other benefit is greatly increased ground clearance. Well above subframe level.

 

 

Its meant to be pretty flimsy though isn't it?

 

In what way? Happy with mine, simple to fit.

 

Not sure about oil starvation being an old wives tale. Joe killed his engine through starvation. It's relatively simple to protect against this and not too expensive...

[Joe M 0]

Yep, Oulton park in the wet, road tyres and the oil level was at max, it can happen. Is it worth risking not having a baffled or R32 sump for all it would cost?

[aki 0]

hi

as a compromise to the expensiive r888s the honkook rs2 could be worth a punt at £60 for 205 50 15 at camskill i love them! they start at 6mm tread depth mind!! but i find them a good compromise between a full trackday tyre and road tyre

andy

[dukest 0]

cheers!

 

i also saw a tracky looking tyre on mytyres the other day from federal - the 595rs? looks similar to the toyo, and not any cheaper but interesting to know how it compares if anyones heard anything? couldn't find much about them on the web..

[RedTyphoon 0]

Stick with 15 and go for Yokohama Parada Spec 2. Im using these on 17 with excellent grip in dry conditions

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Its meant to be pretty flimsy though isn't it?

 

I've jacked my engine up on the R32 sump and it held, so it must be pretty strong :D

You won't hit it on anything in the first place though :wink:

 

Not sure about oil starvation being an old wives tale. Joe killed his engine through starvation. It's relatively simple to protect against this and not too expensive...

 

Indeed.