g60's and 4pot brakes.

[dirtytorque 0]

Ok,to the fellas running 4 pots on their g60.

Did u fit a larger master cylinder?

 

 

thnks in advance.

[dragon green 4]

No i didnt have to,iam 16v,i presume iam same mastercylinder as G60 !

[dirtytorque 0]

No i didnt have to,iam 16v,i presume iam same mastercylinder as G60 !

 

I'm not sure you'd think so. :)

[Supercharged 2]

It depends on the brakes you are fitting - ie the piston area...

 

I think ABS cars are generally ok as they have the 23mm MC but you might get a long pedal on non ABS cars.

 

The one to fit on non ABS is the 24mm one from a UR Quattro

[dirtytorque 0]

Oh ok.hmm..I can't get a good pedal with my wilwood's.

Eezibleed the thing repeatedly.

I thought i'd have the smaller MC on mine as it was g60 but from what you say Steve as it is ABS then it should already have an adequately sized one?!??

 

I was wondering if it was worth running the ABS pump with vagcom for 10 seconds as my ABS pump doesn't have bleed nipples.

I guess I could just admit defeat and take it to VW but that irks me.

[JMC 0]

I have a G60 with ABS and am running prosche 4 pots. I've asked this a few times and got no definate answer as to whether it needs upgrading, although my experience has been that the peddle definately has more travel, and the brakes more progressive than the original setup.

[dirtytorque 0]

I have a G60 with ABS and am running prosche 4 pots. I've asked this a few times and got no definate answer as to whether it needs upgrading, although my experience has been that the peddle definately has more travel, and the brakes more progressive than the original setup.

 

 

hmmm..thnks.

not sure where to go from here at the mo.

I'm inclined to experiment with a larger MC.

[Supercharged 2]

FilthyTalk - what pressure are you bleeding at - try around 20PSI as this is what VAG use...

 

Have you bled the master Cyl? - do this last if you have excessive pedal travel

[Yandards 0]

Bleeding procedure for ABS cars using a vacuum operated(RHD) form of ABS as opposed to the hydraulic pump operated ABS.

 

First of all the bleeding procedure uses VAG tool VW 1238/1 or VAG 1238/B, both of which no longer exist as available equipment direct from VW and appear to have been superseeded by tool VAS 5234. VAS 5234 is a brake fluid changer/filler and works at either 1 or 2 bar. My guess would be that the VAS 5234 simply superseeds the original kit which was probably designed as an ABS bleeding system and a separate non-ABS system; the single VAS 5234 now does both.

 

As we should all have the ABS system with the main ABS unit located above the gearbox then bleeding is the same as a non-ABS car, aside from the fact that you need to bleed the master cylinder first then it's rear right, rear left, front right and finally front left.

 

Note: When bleeding the rear brakes ensure the brake pressure regulator lever is depressed in the direction of the rear axle

 

I would not try to bleed an ABS car without using at least an easi-bleed as it's just too difficult to ensure that you have pumped hard enough on the pedal.

 

I would also try the easi-bleed at 1 bar pressure first to see how it is, if it's no better then jump up to 2 bar, stops you blowing any seals if the system is only designed for 1 bar (although this is unlikely).

 

As per usual this is all straight from the VW workshop manual, although the master cylinder instruction is hidden right at the start of the ABS section in the general notes and warnings.

[dirtytorque 0]

thnks everyone.

yes I did bled the MC but i did it last not first.

I think i used somewhere between bewteen 10 and 20 psi,I think closer to 20 than 10.

 

However I will go and try and bleed it yet again. :|

 

Thnks again.

 

Note: When bleeding the rear brakes ensure the brake pressure regulator lever is depressed in the direction of the rear axle

 

Even when bleeding with the wheels on the floor?

[GVK 0]

Yep, cable tie/ mole grips to ensure load valve in full load position.

 

Also worth mentioning about the piston size in your 4 pots, if the size isn't matched to MC size, you will get the long pedal no matter how many times you bleed it.

 

Have you tried clamping rear brakes to see if pedal improves? (I realize this is difficult if non-standard hoses are used)

 

Also, if the spring tension on the load valve is adjustable as per Golf mk2, pedal feel can be improved with adjustment.

[Yandards 0]

thnks everyone.

yes I did bled the MC but i did it last not first.

I think i used somewhere between bewteen 10 and 20 psi,I think closer to 20 than 10.

 

However I will go and try and bleed it yet again. :|

 

Thnks again.

 

Note: When bleeding the rear brakes ensure the brake pressure regulator lever is depressed in the direction of the rear axle

 

Even when bleeding with the wheels on the floor?

 

Yes, I guess this procedure is suppost to be done on a ramp so the wheels would be in the 'road' position.

 

A bar is 14.9 PSI (near as damn it) so you will need 30 PSI to get 2 bar, if you only used 20 then you can't rule out that it needs more pressure to ensure a good pedal.

 

The rear brake bias valve is adjustable as per the mk 2 Goof, although the procedure for ensuring it is set correctly is pretty long winded in the book.

 

I cannot endorse clamping of brake flexi hoses in anyway, it might get done a lot in garages but as soon as you compress the hose you damage the braiding and the walls of the flexi.

[dirtytorque 0]

ok,thnks.

Pedal is still pooh so i'll take the above on board. 8)

[culshaw 1]

 

Note: When bleeding the rear brakes ensure the brake pressure regulator lever is depressed in the direction of the rear axle

 

Would getting a fat one to sit in the boot do, or stickin some tools in?? what weight equates to full load?? :)

[Yandards 0]

 

Note: When bleeding the rear brakes ensure the brake pressure regulator lever is depressed in the direction of the rear axle

 

Would getting a fat one to sit in the boot do, or stickin some tools in?? what weight equates to full load?? :)

 

It would help but it is easy enough to cable tie or clamp the pressure regulator operating lever against the rear beam.

[dirtytorque 0]

so I have jacked my car up as below..

 

The load valve that you guys refer to seems now to be in the "full load" position as the passenger rear wheel will now be pushed into the wheel arch.

The part of the lever that I am poiting at in the pic is fully extended towards the car above.

So this should be ready for bleeding now right?

[Supercharged 2]

Yup - I usually just hook the Eezibleed up and then open one of the rears - reach over to the valve and push it up and you will see the flow become unrestricted

 

(useful to have a second person for this!)

[junkie 0]

Just to say i was no (horrid) ABS on seat 305mm Brembo's and my pedal was firm, not long at all and braked ridiculously well.

[dirtytorque 0]

Just to say i was no (horrid) ABS on seat 305mm Brembo's and my pedal was firm, not long at all and braked ridiculously well.

 

 

cool.

i think the standard master cylinder should cope too.

[junkie 0]

Yea mine was Rob

[Yandards 0]

Yup - I usually just hook the Eezibleed up and then open one of the rears - reach over to the valve and push it up and you will see the flow become unrestricted

 

(useful to have a second person for this!)

 

After bleeding the master cylinder obviously...

 

Interested to hear the results of this when you are done, I guess you are going for the 2 bar(30 PSI) option ?

[dirtytorque 0]

well bled at pretty much 30 psi.

Manually actuated the brake regulator and saw the flow increase through the clear pipe I'm using.Saw a few bubbles come through too which was encouraging.

When I tried the pedal initially it felt good but once I tuned on the ignition I got that long pedal feeling.Didn't try them out because my driveway is full of snow etc but it feels like once the ignition comes on then the pedal feel changes.

Does the ABS pump suck in a volume of fluid on turning on the ignition?

Maybe it has air in it... :scratch:

 

and yes I bled the MC first. :)

[Yandards 0]

well bled at pretty much 30 psi.

Manually actuated the brake regulator and saw the flow increase through the clear pipe I'm using.Saw a few bubbles come through too which was encouraging.

When I tried the pedal initially it felt good but once I tuned on the ignition I got that long pedal feeling.Didn't try them out because my driveway is full of snow etc but it feels like once the ignition comes on then the pedal feel changes.

Does the ABS pump suck in a volume of fluid on turning on the ignition?

Maybe it has air in it... :scratch:

 

and yes I bled the MC first. :)

 

Unfortunately this is where an Easy Bleed kit fails, for a fluid change you should be putting 500ml out per corner which will go through a few wheels using an easy bleed. You could try connecting an electric air pump to the wheel you are using for the easy bleed as it should keep 30+ PSI in the wheel.

 

There is nothing in the VW workshop manual that states you need to have the ignition on when bleeding ABS, there was only ever one type of ABS fitted to RHD cars but just to see if this works here is the procedure for bleeding the other type of ABS system (it wont hurt to try!)

 

1. Switch on ignition (running engine)

2. Switch off igntion (fully off)

3. Depress brake pedal 20 times to eliminate pressure in accumulator

4. Connect bleeding appliance to brake fluid reservoir and turn 'on'

5. Fit bleeding hose to front left brake caliper

6. Press brake pedal slowly until fluid flows free of bubbles

7. Bleed front right caliper as described in steps 5 & 6

8. Disconnect bleeding appliance

9. Switch on ignition (running engine)

10. Switch off ignition

11. Connect bleeding hose to rear right caliper

12. Depress brake pedal 20 times to eliminate pressure in accumulator

13. Depress brake pedal and hold

14. Switch on ignition and open bleed nipple of rear right caliper

15. Whilst bleeding press rear brake pressure regulator operating lever towards front of vehicle

16. Continue until fluid is free of bubbles

17. Connect bleeding hose to left rear caliper

18. Repeat steps 9, 10, 12-16

19. Switch off ignition

20. Switch on ignition until ABS pump is no longer running

21. Top up brake fluid reservoir to max mark

 

Do not run the ABS pump for longer than 120 secs, allow a 10 minute cool down if this occurs.

 

Seems like you need 6 pairs of hands for this job though!

[dirtytorque 0]

well bled at pretty much 30 psi.

Manually actuated the brake regulator and saw the flow increase through the clear pipe I'm using.Saw a few bubbles come through too which was encouraging.

When I tried the pedal initially it felt good but once I tuned on the ignition I got that long pedal feeling.Didn't try them out because my driveway is full of snow etc but it feels like once the ignition comes on then the pedal feel changes.

Does the ABS pump suck in a volume of fluid on turning on the ignition?

Maybe it has air in it... :scratch:

 

and yes I bled the MC first. :)

 

Unfortunately this is where an Easy Bleed kit fails, for a fluid change you should be putting 500ml out per corner which will go through a few wheels using an easy bleed. You could try connecting an electric air pump to the wheel you are using for the easy bleed as it should keep 30+ PSI in the wheel.

 

There is nothing in the VW workshop manual that states you need to have the ignition on when bleeding ABS, there was only ever one type of ABS fitted to RHD cars but just to see if this works here is the procedure for bleeding the other type of ABS system (it wont hurt to try!)

 

1. Switch on ignition (running engine)

2. Switch off igntion (fully off)

3. Depress brake pedal 20 times to eliminate pressure in accumulator

4. Connect bleeding appliance to brake fluid reservoir and turn 'on'

5. Fit bleeding hose to front left brake caliper

6. Press brake pedal slowly until fluid flows free of bubbles

7. Bleed front right caliper as described in steps 5 & 6

8. Disconnect bleeding appliance

9. Switch on ignition (running engine)

10. Switch off ignition

11. Connect bleeding hose to rear right caliper

12. Depress brake pedal 20 times to eliminate pressure in accumulator

13. Depress brake pedal and hold

14. Switch on ignition and open bleed nipple of rear right caliper

15. Whilst bleeding press rear brake pressure regulator operating lever towards front of vehicle

16. Continue until fluid is free of bubbles

17. Connect bleeding hose to left rear caliper

18. Repeat steps 9, 10, 12-16

19. Switch off ignition

20. Switch on ignition until ABS pump is no longer running

21. Top up brake fluid reservoir to max mark

 

Do not run the ABS pump for longer than 120 secs, allow a 10 minute cool down if this occurs.

 

Seems like you need 6 pairs of hands for this job though!

 

 

thnks Yan.

I was thinking maybe bleed it with the ignition on.

Well I'm going to wait until the thaw b4 bleeding again.

I tried reversing and stopping on the driveway today and i think it is a bit better,so i think it is going in the right direction.