Rotrex VR6 Twilight Violet....NOW FOR SALE

[deano46 10]

very nice dude. quite like the oz wheels! think i might have seen your raddo about you live in the bournemouth area?

[Craig 0]

Thanks, welcome to the forum, yeah im mainly about the westbourne area :)

[fla 9]

looking good ;) OZs suit the car well.

[deano46 10]

Thanks, welcome to the forum, yeah im mainly about the westbourne area :)

cool! thanks for the welcome i will have to get some pics up soon as! i brought mine local (penn central) from Neil?!?... pearl metallic green K plate VR on 16inch BBS and i love it!

[owen g60 10]

Not seen your car about for a while.

 

Hope all is good with it.

[Rams 0]

It's coming along nicely mate,

 

Good to bump into you the other day at chubbys, the hid lights are bright! Think the roof looks smart too, the pics make it look perfect so it must be a good job.

 

Re the curry night, John Croozin prefers Wednesday or Thursday evenings so if you have a preferred date for a curry meet we can extend the invitations.

[Craig 0]

Thanks, yeah I've been busy lately spending money. Bought some hoses and bolts etc for 312 conversion, just need calipers. Thinking ahead i also bought a 2.8 obd1 80k lump from an auto mk3. Currently its with my dad who is going to rebuild it with a view to fitting a big valve head and sp263 cams. But that will be a project over months, not weeks.

 

In the meantime I may have just put down a deposit on a certain rotrex c30-94 charger set up :) thinking what I might do is fit it to my current engine with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and I'm led to believe it will all bolt on and not need mapping. run that for a while then when this other engine is built I can swap it all over and go for some more power :)

 

All plans in the pipeline :)

[Rams 0]

Your keen to get that thing charged up! Will sound Great I'm sure. Where did you find/buy the charger kit?

 

Going to have to find an engine soon to keep up!

[Craig 0]

So took delivery the other day of some parts, one of them being my Rotrex charger :)

 

I need to give it all a good clean and wait for some 312s before i get round to getting it fitted.

 

Not sure if i can use my BMC aire filter or not, anony one know the BMC bhp rating?

[Craig 0]

Just finalising the last parts before I install my rotrex kit. Have a few questions tho as to the pipe work on the throttle inlet.

 

I'm planning on blanking off the PVC hose with a breather filter but what happens with the plug that connects into it and the holes that will be left open?

 

Also the charger set up has a metal hard pipe so what happens with the pipe marked by the arrow and the hole it will leave? Puzzles me why so many hoses need to be interlinked? But then again I'm no mechanic.

 

Also I was told the re circ valve I have needs a vacuum hoses connecting to the top of. any ideas how this can actually be done.

 

I sure my mechanic will bje ok with it all but I just wanted to be as clued up as I can be when I pop up with all the kit.

 

And last q, I will need to have the maf extended so I can fit it in the wing, I presume some wire will just need to be soldered into place :)

 

Thanks for the help

 

Edited April 19, 2012 by Craig

[Craig 0]

Anyone?

[Craig 0]

So last few days have been emotional. Being optimistic we started the rotrex install last Friday in a hope to drive down with ramsey on the Sunday but a whole host of issues. Ant it was no where near ready so I was gutted to miss the ccgb national day.

 

Anyway in short it's alive! Sort of. It's all been a steep learning curve for me but I love to learn about how stuff works

 

The install was a pain, I had an old bracket I believe thus we had to attach it and take it off numerous time to get all of the pulleys lined up, shave a few mm off of the block as it was fouling the bracket and then one of the threads on the block gave way so we then had to helicoil (sp) in a new thread. In the end after a few late nights its all on.

 

It's all very tight With the rrfpr, rotrex oil canister and intake pipes. We tried to keep it all as neat as possible and route vacuum lines for the rrfpr and re-circ valve around the engine bay and out of sight :)

 

The rotrex metal hardpipe has no inlet for the isv pipe, I thought this could be deleted but I was correctly told its needed, so I bought a silicone t-piece and we cut down the isv pipe, connected it back up and then plumbed the isv into the t-piece that was between the tb inlet and intake pipe outlet. The isv hose was smaller than the 25mm t-piece outlet but we fitted a small section of the isv hose around the plastic joiner and this was then a perfect fit and allowed a tight seal.

 

Initially we tried it with the re-circ venting to atmosphere, do not attempt this. It would not idle, the engine was fuelling for the air metered by the maf, but then most of it was being vented when the tb was closed, so massive over fuelling and no idle.

 

We then used the old intake pipe that came with the kit that had an outlet on the 90 degree elbow. I didn't want to use this as it was old and I had bought a nice shiny t-piece for the re-circ but there is no way enough space to have this and a silicone elbow coming off of the charger. So I cleaned the old pipe, wrapped it in some new silicone tape and plumbed it in.

 

Now there was another problem, I idled fine but when we drove it it was awful, the re-circ pipe was collapsing as it was only some cheap vacuum pipe. So limped home, replaced the re-circ pipe with a wire reinforced piece and I reset the ecu.

 

After a drive last night it's certainly got some more power :) but too much I think. I've read that the maf is good for about 280/300bhp and has a 5v resistance for airflow.

 

When I drive under part throttle its ok, but as soon as I open throttle at about 3.5/4k revs the engine wans to jump out of the bay. I suspect the maf is peaking at its 5v limit and shutting down the injectors. Am I correct?

 

The car is very drivable up until I open full throttle, I think the charger is maxing the maf airflow so my question now is how do I resolve this?

 

I've read a few bis on maf clamps, but then any air above the 5v limit is not accounted for? Is this sensible?

 

I've heard c2 mentioned but I'm not sure what that is?

 

Or do I need a full remap and new injectors?

 

Or can a 4" maf be used but then I'll need new software to match I'm led to believe?

 

As always help is much alpreciated on getting it to run perfect :)

 

Here's the pics so far, we ran out of time to fit the 312s so hoping this will be done sometime next week :)

 

312s were already in very good condition, just not keen on red calipers

 

 

Smooth gold :)

 

 

 

mk4 rears painted blue

 

Lick of gold, not a perfect finish but happy enough

 

Bundle of items

 

Rotrex c30-84

 

Gold bracket

 

Metal ccr intake pipe

 

Thought I'd buy a new filter for piece of mind

 

Braided hoses, cnc spacers and high tensile bolts

 

Ready to start

 

So first problem, having to grind a few mm off the block as I seem to have the old style bracket thats not quite a direct fit

[Craig 0]

 

Trial fitting

 

Oil cooler plumbed in

 

Air filter in the wing

 

Installed

 

 

[owen g60 10]

That install looks very clean.

 

I did wonder where your car had gone.

 

Hope you get the running issues sorted.

 

May be worth speaking to vince at stealth to get his thoughts on it

[KADVR6 0]

you always have to grind a bit of the head to get them fitted mate, and sounds like it just needs a remap. Also are you using the standard injectors or have you installed some greens??

[Craig 0]

Currently on standard fuelling and ecu etc, just using the rrfpr that was supplied. Ive been doing a fair it of reading trying to understand it all and I'm pretty sure it's the maf 5v issue on full throttle at about 3.5/4k revs.

 

Didn't think you could mix lager injectors and a rrfpr so would it be to ditch the rrfpr and buy some larger injectors and a remap somewhere? But would a remap cure the 5v airflow problem?

 

Wasn't sure of my options really as obviously I'd like it running as smooth as possible :)

[KADVR6 0]

well personally i would fit bigger injectors and get it mapped with out the MAF, Chipwizards near Manchester do this with great results

[Craig 0]

There's some injector tune 330cc injectors on ed38 at the mo for £170, Is this a good price? Not a clue when it comes to injectors and what fits etc?

 

If it was mapped then am I right in thinking all fuelling etc would remain as normal bar swapping over to bigger injectors and a custom remap.?

[chazrad 0]

Give Matt at United Motorsports a call. He has all sorts of maps on file and can write you one to suit your specific set up. His OBD2 map on my VRT is next to faultless.

Charlie

[Rams 0]

I think it won't work and you should sell it to me! Lol

 

It does sound fantastic mate, once you have overcome these issues it will be grate.

 

You mentioned adjustment on the rising rate fuel pressure regulator, maybe this is trying to dump too much fuel? Maybe the reg is at fault? What pressure should it be at?

 

I think you need to go OBD2. I have a few parts and if you get the looms, chubby and myself have carried it out successfully and think overall a better setup since charging it. Could be money well spent and a further torque improvement. Not sure how big your bonus was but are you interested in the 263 cams?

 

We probably have ear ache from the gfriends, I said, let's go over for half an hour and see how Craig's car is getting on. A few hours later and I'm getting the death stares whilst your grovelling to the Gfriend on why it's taken longer than suspected. It's always the way.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Rams

[VR6Joni 0]

Thought I'd post on here instead of FI VR6 thread.

My advice would be, get some Saab Red 350cc injectors (can get some bargains from ebay) eg:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Saab-9000-Fuel-Injectors-/180893913879?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a1e1e1317

 

I have the 30-94 charger with these injectors.

You can then do the MAF 10K pot trick, works a treat, this will give you good idle and part throttle running. This can be done by ear / VAGCOM but I would highly recommend an AFR gauge or some kind of exhaust gas analysis (MOT station).

 

Also you will be getting 14psi from this charger, some form of cooling is highly recommended, aquamist worked for me before I went charge cooler.(sorry for extra expense downer) I think I have a MAP for this setup somewhere on my laptop.

 

Also on full throttle the MAF is ignored (well it is on my ECU because I tried it, part throttle it cuts out at 4Kish but goes all the way to redline full throttle), I suspect that you have a serious fuelling issue if its cutting out on WOT, so be very careful.

[Craig 0]

Ah that's ideal thank Jon, is it just any Saab 9000 injectors then? and they're a direct fit. Will look into hopefully getting some next pay day and would get them cleaned/refurb.

 

What's the 10k pot trick? Is that something to do with a resistor on the maf? Or raising the 5v limit?

 

I've got the c30-84 charger, how do you know this will be at 14psi, the guy who had it previously advised it would be 10?

 

What's the bhp limit before cooling is required then? I don't have the funds yet for a charge cooler, or where or what to even to begin looking for?

 

I think it's the maf issue then as at full throttle about 3.5/4k revs the engine jumps and it's like its bouncing off the rev limiter? Is this the injectors being cut off and starving the engine because the maf is shutting down? Also without sounding niave but this could cause a piston to melt etc? Cursing at say 50/60mph it's fine, it's only when I try and open the throttle fully.

 

Sorry for all the questions but I just like to be sure what I learn and like to understand why things react the way they do so i get a better understanding rather just accept things and not know why :)

 

Just trying to weigh up all the options and it's could to know the implications of each :)

[VR6Joni 0]

Oh, sorry thought I read you had C30-94 earlier! So it probably will be more like 10psi. How big is the pulley on the charger?

Just make sure they are the Red top injectors, preferably with confirmation that they are the same number as the ones in the link above.

 

The 10K pot trick is just with a potentiometer and gives you a fraction of the output of the MAF so injector on time is reduced, but if you have larger injectors the same amount of fuel is delivered providing you have adjusted the ratio correctly, I had about 0.7V out per 1V in from the pot.

 

General consensus is around 300bhp before cooling is required.

 

At full throttle I did NOT have MAF issues as it is ignored by the ECU, however I did see it on part throttle. If I were you I'd keep a very close eye on this issue and would be highly tempted to get an AFR gauge. I think it will be fuel related unless your ECU operates differently to mine.

Yeah be careful of lean running as that will melt a piston.

[Craig 0]

Give Matt at United Motorsports a call. He has all sorts of maps on file and can write you one to suit your specific set up. His OBD2 map on my VRT is next to faultless.

Charlie

 

Do you mind e asking roughly how much a remap was at UM. Tried calling a few times but just rings and rings. Will try again and leave a message if no answer.

 

Think the pulley John was 75 diameter on my rotrex.

 

 

so a potentiometer is effectively acting in the same way as a maf clamp, stopping it peaking at 5v by lowering slightly so if it did reach 5v, at 0.7/1v ratio when the maf would have been 5v it's only actually at 3.5v. But with bigger injectors the feeling shouldnt be effected. It does sound a bit more complex and wouldnt be confident tackling it on my own.

 

I'm debating at trying to get some injectors and get it remapped for piece of mind? If that failed then we shall see? Just need to weigh up the costs as I don't have the funds just yet.

 

Can't seem to find any maf clamps in the uk, and potentiometer seems to be the only other choice other than a map?

[VR6Joni 0]

The MAF clamps are just zener diodes from maplin etc.. You really should have a resistor in line also to prevent a direct short on the output of the MAF. This method is dangerous in my eyes as it can lead to under fuelling. You really are better off with the Pot trick and new injectors. I'll draw you a diagram if you like of how to fit the Pot.

This still leaves the WOT (Wide Open Throttle) mapping to be dealt with though, your rising rate regulator may well work a treat for this, but I suspect you'll still end up getting a remap as ignition timing really need adjusting to make the most of the boost.

 

I have an 85mm pulley so I bet your boost curve is very similar to mine, if you want a chip to get you up and running I could send you a copy of mine if you want, however you still need a socketed ECU for this.