Carbon Fibre Stuff - 3d scanning Updated 23/01/11

[badgerman 0]

You've confirmed one of my fears mate, that the resin is the main weight or the part. Lay up was the plan but I can try an sub to a company that has an autoclave to achieve the weight saving I am looking for. Looks like I should continue the investigation into tooling for autoclave and pre-preg shizz. So what characteristics does an autoclave tool need to have? Is it something that kayak man could still do or is it more specialist?

 

Solidworks is great, I am a complete CAD dork and am happy to admit it!

[KipVR 1]

An autoclave is effectively a big oven, this is a good explanation.

 

http://www.sterilizers.com/articles/Aut ... l-role.asp

 

but they are quite common, lots of people are now using carbon fibre for boats, cars, planes, bikes military etc etc. so finding a company willing to let you use theirs shouldn't be a problem, they might want to operate it though!

 

I'm a self confessed CAD geek too, it's just opened up so many doors to manufacture products fast and accurately it's brilliant. It's basically a 'virtual' creation world of it's own. :D

[badgerman 0]

Great info dude, I was familiar with the process overall but the detail is great.

 

So todays final thought is that lay-up is only going to make cosmetic components, proper lightweight carbon needs to be done properly! I will investigate the sub contractors I have been recommended and see what prices I will be looking at for the parts and also their tooling requirements. It's a shame really as I was quite up for getting hands on with moulding but if i cannot achieve substantially lightweight parts then there isn't much point. I will make a couple of calls tomorrow and get things moving on that front.

[Dude VR6 0]

Now this is an AutoClave

 

http://www.aschome.com/WorldsLargestAutoclave2.htm

[badgerman 0]

Now this is an AutoClave

 

http://www.aschome.com/WorldsLargestAutoclave2.htm

 

Holy sh*t!! Think how many panels you could fit in there. . . . .

[Dude VR6 0]

Now this is an AutoClave

 

http://www.aschome.com/WorldsLargestAutoclave2.htm

 

Holy sh*t!! Think how many panels you could fit in there. . . . .

 

Shouldnt that be Corrado's :lol:

[badgerman 0]

Now this is an AutoClave

 

http://www.aschome.com/WorldsLargestAutoclave2.htm

 

Holy sh*t!! Think how many panels you could fit in there. . . . .

 

Shouldnt that be Corrado's :lol:[/quote:2x72lcnl]

 

Ambitious, I like the way you think!

[badgerman 0]

So, limited progress on all this although there has been a fair amount of information gathering.

 

After a load of freelance work to boost the pennies up a bit, I am not the owner of a Canon 40D DSLR camera. This may not appear to be relevant to carbon moulding but it is in fact essential. With the Camera I can now begin the process of creating a rig that will allow me to 3d Scan or digitise real world objects in about 2 seconds. Once I have got this process sorted I can do the work for 'Kayak guy' in exchange for corrado front wing tooling. I reckon mid January and I will have the system going and should be able to do the work for this guy.

 

So this started me thinking. Layup carbon will achieve little or no weight saving making the parts little more than chav chariot decoration wings. I am not really up for that and I suspect neither will most of you. I think the 'arch rolled' wing suggestion is a winner and this could be GRP and kevlar as its primary function is not dependant on weight. So if I could get matey (kayak guy) to make tools suitable for layup but also with properties suitable for Autoclave fun then I would be laughing.

 

So I rang around some companies recommended to me. Only one seemed to be answering or returning phone calls so I had a long chat with their tech guy. Turns out if I make the mould using a vinyl resin instead of polyester it will be happy to sit in a 200 deg Autoclave and if it were of solid construction it would be able to handle the vacuum pressures too. The only downer to this conversation was that they have just moulded some wings - and each piece costs about £400. Sh*t. This was made from the lightest most expensive carbon they use and may not be an entirely accurate comparison but I think it gives us an idea of the cost of excellence! If we want the most super light weight carbon wings for our corrados - there is a price. A minor car park shunt at this price will make you want to get out and deck someone.

 

Anyway, it was quite enlightening chatting to this guy and he is happy for me to harras him in future if and when I have more questions. I feel happy to plod on developing the 3d Scanner setup - to do the work for 'Kayak guy' - in exchange for tools - that can be multi use and then if all goes to sh*t at least I can replace my front wings with pristine kevlar panels ;)

 

Watch this space for more progress and if not just random brain waffelings.

[swampy 0]

not sure if any one has tried them but these guys

 

http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/Default.aspx

 

and there sister company are tooled up for making such things and makea few engine type parts for a few cars

 

maybe worth speaking to them

[badgerman 0]

cheers mate, I will look into it.

[badgerman 0]

So, last time I posted I was planning all sorts and not really progressing on the carbon fiber front but I was trying to get going on the 3d scanning which might potentially open some doors for me. And there has now been progression.

 

I thought I would show you a little case study I did for a guy from work. He is putting a 2E lump from a mk3 golf into his T25 and has grafted an MR2 exhaust on to it! He has lashed up this exhaust manifold but it is pretty dodgy (mainly due to his shonky welding) and when he pressure tested it it leaked like a sieve. So I said that I would have a go and see if I could do better.

 

The first two images below are the fused 3D mesh files I compiled from the scans. The messy and wobbly surfaces are a result of interference on the scans and the fact that I have reduced the mesh resolution to a more manageable size. But it still does the job. Having completed the scanning I measured some key dimensions on the more defined parts and on average there was only +/-0.25mm difference between the scan and the actual piece. By raising all the settings - and not rushing like I was - a much greater accuracy can be achieved.

 

 

After the scans are fused I take it into solidworks and model my version of it using standard weld elbows. I

 

Next week I am going to scan a corrado spoiler but also go and visit Kayak guy to discuss me digitising one of his designs in exchange for a set of front wing tools.

[BadMeatPies 0]

Nice thread, glad you're enjoying the project.

 

I would like to register my interest in light weight wings and a lightweight spoiler (depending on price and weight - £70 for a 1kg wing = yes!), I'll probably be painting them unless they are a work of art so finish doesn't matter to me.

 

I have a late 16v if that makes a difference?

 

please feel free to pm me if I miss any responses.

 

ETA: some stuff

[badgerman 0]

Thanks mate, it is useful for me sometimes to get ideas straight in my head by putting them on this thread and it also brings knowledge that I wouldn't otherwise get.

 

Keep an eye out for updates dude, I have loads of projects on at the moment (including the recent demise of my 16v a la hit and run style) so progress will be sporadic but as you can see with the scanning it could be interesting. It might be a slow burner but I hope the results will be worth the effort.

[8vMatt 1]

Hi mate,

 

Is there a chance of the carbon wings happening? I would love one of these, especially an extended style like whats being offered from the US.....BUT cheaper :eek: Don't know if the costs work out to make them much cheaper, fingers crossed :norty:

 

Keep up the good progress :salute:

[badgerman 0]

Hi mate,

 

Is there a chance of the carbon wings happening? I would love one of these, especially an extended style like whats being offered from the US.....BUT cheaper :eek: Don't know if the costs work out to make them much cheaper, fingers crossed :norty:

 

Keep up the good progress :salute:

 

TBH mate the last thing I want to do is tread on anyones toes (i.e. Spoonfed) as they clearly have top quality products that are proven already. If I manufacture parts I do it as a hobby-ist , like the trimming work I do. I like making stuff and have no intentions to manufacture these parts for a living (in the short term).

 

However what I will say is that whatever I make will try to be as unique as possible i.e. not ripping off other designs just to undercut them price wise. And if it is cheaper it is because I am not charging my time at a professional rate (like I do my freelance design work). I do stuff like this to acquire new skills, because I want my work to be out there and I also want to contribute to the scene in my own way. Most of the time I make things because I don't want to pay retail for stuff I can make, if I can make some more and help others get a step closer to their dream car - thats cool.

 

Sorry for the disclaimer but I realised from your message that my hobby-ist exploration might be viewed as trying to undercut someone (Spoonfed) who has already had the initiative and worked hard to get a product out there. It's not what its about - in fact I am not sure what its about yet. . . . . . but keep an eye on the thread - soon I will have scanned a spoiler and will be creating my own variations on my computer for critique on the thread.

 

As for timescales and indicative costs for these bits - I have no idea. But when I do it will be on here ;)

[8vMatt 1]

Hi mate,

 

Is there a chance of the carbon wings happening? I would love one of these, especially an extended style like whats being offered from the US.....BUT cheaper :eek: Don't know if the costs work out to make them much cheaper, fingers crossed :norty:

 

Keep up the good progress :salute:

 

TBH mate the last thing I want to do is tread on anyones toes (i.e. Spoonfed) as they clearly have top quality products that are proven already. If I manufacture parts I do it as a hobby-ist , like the trimming work I do. I like making stuff and have no intentions to manufacture these parts for a living (in the short term).

 

However what I will say is that whatever I make will try to be as unique as possible i.e. not ripping off other designs just to undercut them price wise. And if it is cheaper it is because I am not charging my time at a professional rate (like I do my freelance design work). I do stuff like this to acquire new skills, because I want my work to be out there and I also want to contribute to the scene in my own way. Most of the time I make things because I don't want to pay retail for stuff I can make, if I can make some more and help others get a step closer to their dream car - thats cool.

 

Sorry for the disclaimer but I realised from your message that my hobby-ist exploration might be viewed as trying to undercut someone (Spoonfed) who has already had the initiative and worked hard to get a product out there. It's not what its about - in fact I am not sure what its about yet. . . . . . but keep an eye on the thread - soon I will have scanned a spoiler and will be creating my own variations on my computer for critique on the thread.

 

As for timescales and indicative costs for these bits - I have no idea. But when I do it will be on here ;)

 

Thanks for the reply there mate. Don't worry I can see the difference in what both you guys are offering. I love the Spoonfed stuff, its very good on a professional business level and you're looking to expand your skills as you have said. Thats why I asked if there was going to be production of your ideas as I think there would be some good interest in what you have to offer. I think there would be enough of a demand that you wouldn't be seen to be treading on toes, especially if you were able to offer something different. I'm looking forward to seeing these come to fruition.

 

Best of luck with everything.

[badgerman 0]

cheers buddy, hopefully you'll see something fairly soon ;) and TBH I hope that eventually I can manufacture this kind of thing because my dayjob is p*ssing me off now and I am so tempted to go freelance!