Camber etc after lowering NOW HOW TO DIY ALIGNMENT!

[davidwort 0]

yeah, the slightly worrying thing is you can see just how out of alignment the front subframe/wishbones and rear beam are, very visually with the string up!

I'd imagine that would be major grief to correct though as it must be a combination of the position the front subframe gets bolted up in (there does seem to be some adjustment there when I had my 8v subframe dropped) and the rear beam bush position in the rear beam and mounting brackets for the beam to the car.

Odd thing is although my valver is way out, looking down the sides of the car you can see the difference in the tyres to the body, nearly 20mm I reckon, it doesn't affect the handling or tyre wear, camber and toe are bang on.

All three cars we tried are out, the other two by less, about 10mm front to rear.

It's like my sketch below:

alignment1.jpg[/attachment:2zj5qkni]

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I just plonk a magnetic laser pointer onto the disc (fiver from tesco), mark the beam on the inner wing with tippex and then realign it back to the mark again afterwards. It's worked for me for years. Cheap and easy 8)

[davidwort 0]

I just plonk a magnetic laser pointer onto the disc (fiver from tesco), mark the beam on the inner wing with tippex and then realign it back to the mark again afterwards. It's worked for me for years. Cheap and easy 8)

That's OK if you have properly set up alignment first, trouble with us is the cars had had a combination of new shocks, springs, topmounts, wishbone bushes, different wheel sizes and tyres etc, all replacing tired worn stuff, even a removal of the subframe in my case which is pretty hard to get back exactly right even if carefully marked.

[boost monkey 0]

You're right davidwort, the front subframe and rear beam do have locating hole which can be adjusted. I certainly remember the NSR beam bracket bolted into slightly ovalised holes, so I'm guessing it's possible to mount the beam slightly off.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I just plonk a magnetic laser pointer onto the disc (fiver from tesco), mark the beam on the inner wing with tippex and then realign it back to the mark again afterwards. It's worked for me for years. Cheap and easy 8)

That's OK if you have properly set up alignment first, trouble with us is the cars had had a combination of new shocks, springs, topmounts, wishbone bushes, different wheel sizes and tyres etc, all replacing tired worn stuff, even a removal of the subframe in my case which is pretty hard to get back exactly right even if carefully marked.

 

Ah right, starting from scratch. I didn't read the whole thread!

 

Yeah that is a different scenario. This may sound silly / Bullschitt but I can align my camber by eye :D Honestly! I know the car so well that I can tell from looking at the wheel angle if it's right or not. The last time I set it up like that (after fitting my V3s), the nearside was -1.12 and the offside was -0.95 on the 4WA machine, so near as dammit cock on.

 

I haven't yet trained my eagle eye to spot bad toe alignment (unless it's like 5 degrees off!) so if I was chaning tie rods, I'd get it aligned properly afterwards, even if counting threads to get it close.

[jamiehamy 0]

Found this guide online - i think it follows on what people have said earlier, but more pictures to help clarify. Took me a few reads to really get the hang of it and understand how they squared the string with the car, but makes sense. Plus, I like pictures :) Think I'll give this a shot soon - it's £90 a pop to get camber and alignment done so will make a saving possibly in the long term.

 

Also means i don't have to replace every suspension component in one pop (which I can't afford to do).

 

http://elantragtclub.tripod.com/elantra/id554.html

[dragon green 5]

But why weigh in the first place?

 

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it was'nt my Corrado i weighed !

I have an old hot rod i do a bit of drag racing in,and wanted to set the suspension to the weight of the car !

[KipVR 1]

If you've got coilovers you should set them up with the car on weights with the driver in (or suitable weight)and half a tank. Then once you've done that take it to a garage with a gyro setup.

[awright182 0]

I think the only thing missing from this thread is how do you adjust the camber if you need to.

 

I've had my wishbones off and replaced the bushes. I also had to replace the ball joint to wishbone connections. If the camber is out how do I re-adjust it? I know the bolt holes in the connectors are oval and provide some adjustment but is that the official way?

 

Andy

[davidwort 0]

Adjusting camber, just loosen the lower 2 strut bolts slightly and pull/push as required, there's at least 4 degrees of adjustment there from what I've found, probably more, you can certainly get more than 3 degrees negative as that's what Jason's car had on it when he rolled up :)

 

Anyway, laser aligned last night on the proper kit at the garage, from my woolly garden string I'd guess-timated 1mm out on toe before I gave up adjusting on Sunday night, in fact it was actually 2mm out (was 12mm before I started!), but with fishing line rather than thick string I reckon I'd have got it bang on, so it works, perfectly doable at home on the garage floor :D

 

I'm struggling with the calculations now, but if I follow the toe calculations here I reckon on a 15" wheel, 2mm out is 16 minutes out and 1mm out is 8 minutes out.

The Bentley says both VR6 and 4 cylinder is 0 deg toe +/- 10 minutes, so using a fine bright fishing line etc should easily bring you within the margin of error specified for the car... which is nice 8)

 

anyone want their alignment done? :lol:

[awright182 0]

Thanks David.

 

I'll check it and see if I've messed things up.

 

Andy

[eugopnosaj 0]

Adjusting camber, just loosen the lower 2 strut bolts slightly and pull/push as required, there's at least 4 degrees of adjustment there from what I've found, probably more, you can certainly get more than 3 degrees negative as that's what Jason's car had on it when he rolled up :)

 

Anyway, laser aligned last night on the proper kit at the garage, from my woolly garden string I'd guess-timated 1mm out on toe before I gave up adjusting on Sunday night, in fact it was actually 2mm out (was 12mm before I started!), but with fishing line rather than thick string I reckon I'd have got it bang on, so it works, perfectly doable at home on the garage floor :D

 

I'm struggling with the calculations now, but if I follow the toe calculations here I reckon on a 15" wheel, 2mm out is 16 minutes out and 1mm out is 8 minutes out.

The Bentley says both VR6 and 4 cylinder is 0 deg toe +/- 10 minutes, so using a fine bright fishing line etc should easily bring you within the margin of error specified for the car... which is nice 8)

 

anyone want their alignment done? :lol:

 

Maybe we should start charging :lol: It was definitely interesting to say the least but as David said, using thickish garden twine gave us a few mm out and mine is about 0.5mm out however I haven't had a chance to get it properly checked. There is a place near me who say they will do alignment checks for free so I will try and take it down there to see what readings they've got. There is still a slight pull to the left but it also depends what the road conditions are like but we were as close as we could get it the camber to 0.5 deg or thereabouts according to our calculations

[RW1 0]

You know tyres have a "pulling" factor? Thats what the coloured lines on the tread are about when bought new. In some cases, not matching these lines correctly on an axle can lead to the tyres steering the car left or right, irrespective of camber/tracking being correct.

 

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[davidwort 0]

You know tyres have a "pulling" factor? Thats what the coloured lines on the tread are about when bought new. In some cases, not matching these lines correctly on an axle can lead to the tyres steering the car left or right, irrespective of camber/tracking being correct.

I think it's more likely the camber imbalance left/right front wheels, my garage floor isn't bang on level and my 8v has a very slight left drift too so I reckon we've got the same small error on both cars camber on the nearside.

 

I'd forgotten how nicely a Corrado handles when properly set up, it's been a few months since the 16v was on the road and it's really nice to have everything set just right on the 8v, first time since I got in in the summer.

 

Have you got any info on how you made up your plumb line camber gauge, I fancy making something like that up :)

[RW1 0]

I made the gauge out of two 90' decking angle brackets with a flat decking plate. All bolted. Then screwed the 2 x 1 with 2.5 inch screws to the middle. Also two narrower 90' angle brackets on the sides of the 2 x 1. Dipped the two end edges ("feet") in blue rubber paint to stop paint being scratched.

 

The paper protractor was draw out in Lotus Freelance v2.1 years ago. Measured up to ensure the angles were correctly printed. It prints on A4. Its marked out in major - degrees -3 to +3 and minors to 15 minutes. Rest is reading judgement.

 

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfCamber Protractor Illustration only.jpg[/attachment:2k07c8q4]

camber.zip[/attachment:2k07c8q4]

 

Setting up is a matter of pinning the top drawing pin & cotton to the top hairline cross. Put the instrument on a measured flat surface. Move the paper protractor to near as vertical as the cotton (with nut weight) indicates all th eway down to the angle scale. Pin it in place on either side of the vertical line as shown. Length of cotton & nut has to hang short of the footing points so it can swing. To get plumb dead on, bend the decking brackets slightly.

 

The decking brackets and decking plate (B&Q) are about 50mm wide for stability while standing.

 

On the car roof, use a digital camera to read the readings (thats what the 2nd photo was for) due to the awkward position to take a visual eye reading. Make sure its taken on the centre line to avoid parrellax errors.

 

I also know from creating a known flat bed for the cars at the previous house that on my Corrado, the roof just a couple of inches behind the sunroof rear edge on the centre line is "flat" for where the instrument is placed. On the Scirocco in the photo, that's its level point on the roof I can use.

 

You will have to measure the point to point of the garage floor (ie. 4 tyre spots) where the Corrado will stand to understand the garage floor levels. From this, the roof readings position can be determined and errors etc.. Once you've done this once, there's no need again as the roof spot is now known that represents the wheel on ground.

 

I don't do it to the last minute of arc.. I just look for ball-park abd go from there.

 

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[davidwort 0]

excellent! thank very much form the write up and protractor :D

 

...if only I could find something to open .pre files :?

[RW1 0]

Can't export it out of Freelance as Lotus were at logger heads with Microsoft back then and therefore no filter.

 

Simple to make in PowerPoint. Just make a scale up that represents and check it by physical measurement of the printed copy.

 

At the time Freelance had an angle window so you could rotate the line to devise the scale. But still measured off dimensions and use trig to fettle it to an accurate scale.

 

I actually keep the legacy Freelance application loaded on the PC just to print this file!

 

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[RW1 0]

I've had a doodle and made one in PowerPoint.

 

Camber Protractor 150111.ppt[/attachment:291x122u]

Note the dimension requirements when printed otherwise the angles on the bottom scale will be incorrect.

 

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[davidwort 0]

you're a star, thank you. :D