Weird chirrup / squeak from belt side of block on VR6.. think it's PAS pump.

[Jim 2]

Hi all..

 

I came back from a 140 mile drive last weekend and noticed when I hopped out of the car with the engine running there was this occasional squeak / chirrup kind of noise. Being an optimistic sort of guy I presumed it was the aux belt tensioner failing (car has done 175k and no idea when it was last changed) so I've just got all the bits today and successfully changed the bearing out of the pulley with the excellent guides available on here.

 

However - imagine my disappointment to set off out for a spin and find it's still doing it even after swapping the bearing! That was a good waste of an hours effort and £50 on tools and parts!! :|

 

On closer inspection the noise seems to be coming from lower down the block - probably in the region of the PAS pump.

 

The noise seems to happen once every couple of seconds.. and it sounds like a little mousey squeak I guess. Power Steering feels fine / normal so no signs that it's on the way out or anything.. I recorded a camera phone video but it couldn't even pick it up and was just drowned out by general engine noise.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited May 6, 2011 by Jim

[easypops 8]

Water pump is about there Jim, how is your temp, heaters etc?

[Jim 2]

Temperature, heaters all seem fine mate...

[Purple Tom 0]

Does the chirrup increase in frequency proportionately with the engine speed?

[Jim 2]

I'll have to take the car out again and have another listen.. the chirrup comes and goes a bit and it's not possible to hear it whilst in / driving the car. I'll bump up the thread next time I take it out for a drive and see if I can hear how the noise changes as the engine revs increase.

[fla 9]

disconnect the belt and run the car and see if you still get the noise. If so, then its none of the auxiliary items. It could also be a crappy belt. With the belt off, spin the p/s pump & water pump by hand and see what noise you get. Try turning the alternator too (cant remember if this can be done by hand though?)

[PROVR6 0]

I'd also suspect the actual belt. Pour plenty of talc on it and if it stops the squeaking then its the belt. The squeak will soon come back, just make sure you order a continental belt as the aftermarket ones squeak.

[Jim 2]

I did wonder if it was the belt. If I feel inclined over the weekend I'll go get my jack and axle stands from the lock-up over in Coventry and have a go at this. Seeing as I've done the hardest part (removing the tensioner), simply taking off / replacing the belt can't be much harder!

[Supercharged 2]

Belts easy as on a VR and Euro sell Conti ones, same as VW

 

When off have a good look at the waterpump to see if there is any plau or roughness...

[Jim 2]

Unfortunately I think it's the PAS pump that's going. Changed the belt today without any problems and worked my way round to the PAS pump. It immediately didn't feel right and as I span it there was intermittent resistance and a slight metallic noise. It's clearly not very well :(

 

There seems to be a good guide here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2332651-HOWTO-Replacing-the-VR6-Power-Steering-Pump&p=70588534

 

I guess this needs to be in my near future. And sorting out the leak on the radiator. Quite a few nasty bills on this car in a year :(

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not being rude, but do you know what a VR6 pas pump normally feels like though mate? Was there any play when pulling on the pulley with no belt tension? There's usually a little in-out movement (depending on pump brand, there's 2 makes used) but that's fine. They can feel like you describe when spinning by hand and still connected in the hydraulic circuit.

 

Not saying it's not that for sure, but don't go replacing parts that don't need replacing, such as my coilpack, cough, cough.

 

Did you dip the clutch when this noise happened? Release bearings can make a squeak.

[Jim 2]

To be totally honest I don't mate - never tried to spin one before. But when I turned it, it just didn't seem right - I don't remember there being any play but remember it feeling like, as I was spinning it, there was a little resistance sometimes and when there was resistance, some kind of slight metallic noise. I assumed it'd just spin freely without any sort of noise or resistance.

 

And regarding coilpack - I'm more than happy to fire some reddies your way if you know what you want for it! Just PM what you think it's worth and your account details! :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL, I was only joking about the coilpack :D

 

You won't be too surprised to hear this, but I have one or 2 PAS pumps spare, so keep me posted on yours and I can sling one your way. You don't want to know how much they are new....or how much a rack is now, compared to a few years ago!

 

And speaking of that, I got Neil to order me the VR6 ZF rebuild kit. £90 for a few seals and a couple of bearings and clips n things!! I'll do a rebuild guide, which will be a learning experience for me too! I think I can already see why the racks leak on one side. The little sleeve bearing wears out allowing the rack to prematurely wear through the oil seal..... bit like putting new guide seals on worn guides....the valve stems just chew through the new seals.

[Jim 2]

Hi mate... actually they're not too toe curling to replace. ECP want £140'ish and Reid reckons they're similar from TPS - so he could just get one in for me. Then beyond some PAS fluid, few replacements bolts and some washers and an hour or two on the floor I should be good to go. Rack on the other hand.. yeah.. not such a pretty picture price wise!!

 

The offer of a known good spare is, again, very kind of you mate. I would have to give you something for that though!! Just trying to decide whether a brand new one would be worth it whilst they're relatively inexpensive :)

 

I will look to get a second opinion somehow but it just didn't seem right to me!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Ah OK, mine from VW a few years ago was about £250!! So they've come down in price, which is good to see. It was the other make of pump I was talking about - YBC or some such. The other make is ZF. They vary in play / feel, but both work the same in terms of pressurising the rack though.

 

A brand new one isn't such a bad idea though if they're 'only' ~ 15 sheets tbh.

[Jim 2]

It is a strange state of affairs when you start to consider £150 "reasonable" compared to some other bills you can run into but.. yeah.. I'll keep this thread updated accordingly. Cheers mate :)

 

---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

 

Actually turns out they're £227+VAT from TPS. Doh.

 

I'll get a second opinion on how the pump feels and then might be in touch Mr H.. :)

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Are you sure it's not the release bearing squeaking? Try pressing your foot on the clutch slightly while it's running. I think when the clutch was done with the chains StoneyG60c used a non genuine clutch and bearing (the non genuine bearings are always short on grease and cause a squeak)

 

Edit: Oops I just noticed Kev suggested the same thing :D

[Jim 2]

Hi mate.. no, this is a different thing and coming from the wrong side to be the clutch. The release bearing does indeed chirrup and just lightly putting my food on the clutch shuts it up. This is most definitely from the belts area and, having seen 2cc this evening, he stuck his head down and immediately agreed it was the PAS pump to blame! So that's that! :)

[Jim 2]

Have taken a gamble on a VR6 PAS pump on eBay. It's second hand but looks to be pretty new (i.e. silver, and not black with years of road film / oil) and looks to be supplied with the pulley as well - and was the exact same price as the amount of money I had in my PayPal account after selling some bits of tat. Worth a punt to at least test and then decide on whether or not to buy a brand new one.

[Jim 2]

Got my second hand PAS pump through this morning. Looks to be in good shape. Slight play on the shaft if I push / pull it (as you described kev) but spins smoothly and silently and seems quite clean so I don't think it's that old, or has come off a car that's done many miles. Comes with a pulley already on it as well (bonus!) so I don't even need to remove my old pulley - should virtually be a bolt / unbolt job assuming everything comes off as it's supposed to.

 

I might see if Eric fancies helping one evening next week :)

[Supercharged 2]

Make sure you fill it with fresh fluid and run it by hand a few times before sticking the belt on, then start it with the car in the air and work the steering from lock to lock with the cap off to bleed the aid out... it will still be noisey for a couple of days driving until all the air is expelled.

[Jim 2]

Yep.. no worries mate. Read an excellent guide on Vortex on how to do this that covers all the bases including hand priming it, etc...