fla 9 Posted October 28, 2011 so these would mean being able to reduce ride height but use standard suspension? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 29, 2011 No, the idea here is to design a part that allows aftermarket lowered suspension (kits / coilovers) to be used without losing standard suspension geometry range. Basically, it rides like its standard height but handles like its lowered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fla 9 Posted October 29, 2011 useful benefit indeed. My thoughts are along the lines of keeping the standard geometry (ie with the wishbones below horizontal as per standard) but with the wheel mounting points higher up, by eg 40mm, so in effect lowered on standard suspension. Is this feasible? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted October 29, 2011 fla, your right if the dropped spindles are ever made, but the ball joint extender is what boost monkey is refering to. Havent been on the forum for a short while but things seem to be progressing well here. Fingers crossed we may get to avenues of positive responce ie dropped spindle (my preference) and BJE's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 29, 2011 Aha I see you mean about dropped spindles now. Yes, a ball joint extender just corrects the geometry after a car has been lowered. A spindle modded hub would remove the arch clearance whilst keeping standard suspension. But wouldn't there be wheel fouling issues with the arch as the standard suspension would obviously have a standard range of travel? i.e. it wouldn't bottom out until the actual tyre was somewhere up near the top mount. Or have I missed the point? ---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ---------- SO I have researched the wishbones a little and found some data on CGTI that suggests that VR6 wishbones are 400mm between balljoint centre line and the centreline of the wishbone front bolt. This will be really useful as this will dictate the angle change of the LBJ centreline, how much the hub moves inboard by an therefore what is needed to correct it. Going to mock up a dodgy looking wishbone now! :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted October 29, 2011 sooo exciting! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 29, 2011 1 question: anyone know what angle the wishbone sits at (compared to ground / horizontal) at standard ride height? Can't find the info anywhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24V Renshaw 0 Posted October 29, 2011 If I get chance tomorrow I will measure it. Mine is big standard at the moment and is on a nice flat garage floor. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 29, 2011 Cheers Jay, that would be great :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted October 30, 2011 Isnt there a load of differences in standard ride height on rado's as Ive never been able to get a simple answer to work out how much ive lowered mine by. Jay's input will be interesting. May be worth measuring both sides to factor in suspension sag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 30, 2011 Good call Sam. Just playing around with the model and i'm thinking that if my datum point is wrong then everything else will be out. Also as the balljoint pin is mounted at approx 70degrees (from the model) to the bolting face I starting to think that the more a car is lowered, the more inboard the hub would move. This also means the suspension strut will be running slightly non-vertical and i'm sure there'll be a bunch of other issues also. So I'm thinking we might need a dynamic LBE. That is, one with a movable joint in. p.s. why you up so early on a sunday! :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted October 30, 2011 why would the hub move inboard? I would say it would go outboard, if you mock it up on proe or something similar it would be very easy to confirm. Having an extra joint is just going to be complicated and messy, may aswell make a new bj to replace the oem one. what about my idea of the g60 bj with a bje that has a 70deg elbow? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 31, 2011 As the angle between wishbone and floor increases (wishbone outer moves up due to lowering) the top of the LBJ would move further inboard therefore the hub would also move further inboard unless ALL of the offset could be taken up in the balljoint's rotation. Yeah I mocked it up this weekend in Solidworks. I agree an extra joint complicates things; it's just an idea at this stage. No matey, I haven't seen any of your ideas. Are they in another thread? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted October 31, 2011 but wouldnt the top of the lbj pivot outwards due to the strut, after all there are only 3 major joints (BJ, wishbone arm and strut top)? or are you thinking that the compression of the springs doesnt allow for that. If that is indeed the case, I wonder why vw planned for the to happen as you hit bumps and corner? My idea (briefly whispered at the beginning of the thread) was to have a g60 bj fitted to the vr6 wishbones then fit to it a modified version of the current bje available to extend and then angle to the vr6 bj angle and with the same attachment feature ie tapered and bolted. This probably doesnt make sense as its hard to explain. I've done a very rough sketch and Ill try to upload it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 31, 2011 It may well pivot a little bit, as it is designed to do. Whether it pivots enough or not to allow for a certain amount of lowering I have no idea. I'm sure the strut will rotate around the top mount a fair deal. When they're hanging loose unattached to the hub you can definitely describe a circle with the hub end (if that makes sense) so they're not completely rigid. But then the top mounts are rubber as standard so that makes sense. Perhaps VW knew they may move a little bit in this way? I think I know what you mean. I found a thread on CGTI about someone who wanted to do the same thing. I think they just slotted the 3 LBJ bolt holes on the wishbone to allow them to use the squarer 4cyl LBJ item. I have no idea if it improved the bump steer issues though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted October 31, 2011 Hey Jon, do you want a model of the hub? If so let me know our email and I'll try and dig it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 31, 2011 I am PMing you right now :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted November 1, 2011 A massive thankyou goes to KipVR, who sent me cad data for the wheel hub last night. What a legend! Here are some basic renders to show geometry: I’m looking forward to working through this little R&D project :D I’m glad other people have been able to give input in various forms and help out. Hopefully we’ll get to a good design at the end of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted November 1, 2011 Why can't you lot attach pics to the forum instead of using Photo damn bucket?!?! :lol: I hate not being able to see all the fun drawings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted November 1, 2011 Just for you Kev!! :D I don't like embedding them in the forum because it makes them harder to show other people, and they're nice and seamless when they're in the post body! Just my personal pref. I guess when you've seen them you can as Super Ultra ModRobot delete them off the server. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24V Renshaw 0 Posted November 1, 2011 Both 3D scans from my mate Doug (tribetype40), extremely useful facility he has and damn clever too. Now people should be able to see why it's not as simple as just bolting on an extender.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted November 1, 2011 Thanks Boost Hunky :D Very nice drawings! We need to get friendly with a local foundry who have sand casting equipment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted November 1, 2011 I have a contact through work? Also a rapid prototyping place too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted November 1, 2011 I may be able to help too with proto's or castings but would take some digging. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
