Definitive guide to bushes

[dinkus 10]

I've been reading a lot on what to look for when getting a C and the common work that needs doing. From what I can gather, it seems that it's not uncommon to need to replace the bushes.

 

Can anyone tell me firstly how many sets of bushes are there, what ones are usually in need of repacing and how much it costs to get them replaced?

 

From what I can work out, it would appear the rear axle ones are the most common ones to go and the cost for replacing them is in the region of £200? Vibratech ones seem to be highly recommended as they keep the original ride comfort but improve the handling? How true is this, or is it worth sticking with OE ones?

 

I'm going on the assumption that the bushes won't have been replaced since new, so at the moment it seems like a good idea to get a cheaper, higher mileage VR6 that has almost shot bushes. Then I can replace them and the front engine mount (Vibratech one?) as the first thing I do. I then get the best handling out of the car without feeling guilty about throwing money at a car I just bougt.

 

Is there anything else to look out for on a high(er) mileage (100k+) VR6's? I hear rumours of irregular bore wear...any inclination of mileage that it happens, or ways of checking for it? Engine rebuilds don't really appeal that much :)

[dr_mat 0]

Bushes - long story, but high mileage VR6s I can summarise quite easily:

if it's smoking, or using oil, it's gonna need at least a top end rebuild. If it's not, everything's fine. It's pretty much entirely dependant on how well the car has been treated..

But the dreaded timing chains will need doing at some point between 80k and 140k miles. Big job, gearbox/clutch off too.. Maybe the tappets at around the same time.

 

Bushes - rear axle bushes are usually the first to go. Replace 'em with VW ones cos they are the only ones that retain the OE passive rear wheel steering qualities. Front bushes - there's two sets on the lower wishbones, the front of these doesn't wear out, the rear sometimes splits and requires replacing. The rear wishbone bush can be repaced with another OE one for not much cash or for an improvement in steering response try a Vibratechnics mount. I've heard mixed reports about the poly ones..

Engine bushes (mounts) - VR6s had hydraulic rear engine mounts, and these will eventually split and deposit dark sludgy oil over the bottom of the engine cradle. As soon as you spot this, get it replaced, as excess engine movement can result in breaking all kinds of other anciliaries. The front engine mount is solid rubber, but has been known to break, so keep an eye on it.

 

As for replacements, I can tell you that you WILL notice more cabin noise, particularly from the gearbox if you don't replace with OE. Whether you can put up with it only you can say, but personally I wish I'd got an OE fitted.. I don't think you get much in the way of additional noise from the engine when you uprate the front mount, however.

 

HTH.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

VR6s had hydraulic rear engine mounts

 

My original rear one is solid rubber.

 

K

[PhatVR6 0]

mine is a rubber block with loads of holes in it.

[dr_mat 0]

Ok, very late VR6s had hydraulic rear engine mounts... :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

AFAIK VRs have always had rubber mounts..... no tuners ever mention a replacement mounts for VR6 hydraulic ones.

 

K

[dr_mat 0]

I've spoken to several people on the yahoo group who've said they had the same problem and had hydraulic mounts on the rear of the engine. My garage and the local VW place confirmed this.

Mine *definitely* had a hydraulic gearbox mount, cos that's the one that splurged every damn where...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

They were probably talking about the gearbox one as yes, they were hydraulic and shite. A nice solid rubber one will improve matters there.

[PhatVR6 0]

I'm fitting vibratechnics mounts all round. I'm going to order them this week.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I'm fitting vibratechnics mounts all round. I'm going to order them this week.

 

Good move

[dinkus 10]

Thanks for your help guys, I'm all for replacing rubber bits. There's no way a piece of rubber (with or without fluid in it) is going to last 10 years, so even if they're not completely dead by now they must be getting that way. Sticking with OE bushes seems to be in order, all that development time spent on the C wasn't for nothing :D

 

If the engine smokes I'm walking away :) but the timing chain thing does make me a bit jumpy. Am I right in saying a bit of chain clatter is ok, lots is bad?

 

From what I can tell the parts alone for new chains is £300ish plus a lot of fitting time, does anyone have any rough guides to cost after fitting? People have also been saying you can get the Passat VR6 chains and tensioner setup which is supposed to last longer, again any comments on that?

 

Engine mounts - kevhaywire seems to like his Vibratech front mount, turn2 gerbox mount and OE rear mount setup, so that could be the way to go.

 

Thanks again for such a great forum, you're all top blokes (and the odd female!) hopefully when I actually get my C I'll be able to help out :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Engine mounts - kevhaywire seems to like his Vibratech front mount, turn2 gerbox mount and OE rear mount setup, so that could be the way to go.

 

I've got a Vibratechnics rear one aswell :lol: You really need the pair so that the firmer rubber of the front doesn't put undue strain on the softer OE rear. The turn2 gearbox mount seems to compliment the VTs rather nicely. I think it's just a MK2 solid rubber diesel one, so no need to trouble yourself getting one from the states.

[dr_mat 0]

A "bit" of chain clatter can be interpreted as "start saving", a "lot" of chain clatter can be interpreted as "take out a loan and get it done NOW"..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

From what I can tell the parts alone for new chains is £300ish plus a lot of fitting time, does anyone have any rough guides to cost after fitting?

 

All in the parts come to £200 + about 5 to 6 hours labour. So at £36 an hour (Stealth's rate), you're looking at around £450 all in. Or if you know someone that's good with spanners, has the space and an engine hoist, a weekend and the cost of the parts is all that's required.

 

People have also been saying you can get the Passat VR6 chains and tensioner setup which is supposed to last longer, again any comments on that?

 

There were rumblings about using the 24V tensioner setup on the 12V but they are single chains top and bottom, the 12V has a single and double chain arrangement, so i don't think the 24V and 12V components are interchangable tbh. The 24V upper tensioner is solid plastic too, which is better/quieter but apparently they're showing signs of wearing just as quickly as the 12V upper blades. So best to just stick to 12V stuff. Passat and Golf 12Vs use the same stuff as the Corrado.

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Pretty good run down Kev!

 

The chains are no real great deal, it's all down to if you can do it yourself.

I've done a couple now and each went fine with no complications, it's not too much more than changing the clutch effort with a few more cups of tea thrown in!

 

I changed a front mount on my VR for a VF-engineering one and it is quiet and keeps the enging where it should be, as for the rear gearbox mount, i changed one on my 'H' plate 16v and it was a fluid one with gungy brown oil running out of it as was the one off my 'K' reg VR so as for only being on very late C's, that's not true.

 

Kev, if yours is solid, all i can say is that your lass must be very happy :lol:

 

 

Chris

[dinkus 10]

A "bit" of chain clatter can be interpreted as "start saving", a "lot" of chain clatter can be interpreted as "take out a loan and get it done NOW"..

 

I thought getting a Corrado was interpreted as "start saving" ? ;)

 

I've got a Vibratechnics rear one aswell You really need the pair so that the firmer rubber of the front doesn't put undue strain on the softer OE rear. The turn2 gearbox mount seems to compliment the VTs rather nicely. I think it's just a MK2 solid rubber diesel one, so no need to trouble yourself getting one from the states.

 

Hmm, the idea of extra vibrations don't really appeal, but at the same time I'd like to keep the engine nicely tied down...tricky one.

 

I think get a car before I worry about it too much more, I just want to get an idea how much the common stuff is to replace. Not that i's going to stop me buying a C, I'm too far gone already :D

[dr_mat 0]

The estimate of 5-6 hours for timing chains is only applicable if you're talking to someone like stealth who know how to do it. The "book" figure from Bentley etc is 8.5 hours +, so expect a bill of around a grand if VW do it!!

The later 12V vr6 engines definitely use a better designed upper tensioner - as Kev says, it's solid plastic and all reports I've heard are that it last much longer than the early design. (It's also spring-loaded, not oil pressure loaded, so that can be seen to be an advantage too - no cold starts with loose chains..). It's exactly the same size/shape as the earlier tensioner, so it should be interchangeable with the early design, even if you stick with the early dual-chain setup.

That said, this is all academic, since you don't have a Corrado yet! :)

[dr_mat 0]

I thought getting a Corrado was interpreted as "start saving" ? ;)

 

No, *getting* a Corrado is the time at which point it is TOO LATE to START saving!!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The estimate of 5-6 hours for timing chains is only applicable if you're talking to someone like stealth who know how to do it. The "book" figure from Bentley etc is 8.5 hours +, so expect a bill of around a grand if VW do it!!

The later 12V vr6 engines definitely use a better designed upper tensioner - as Kev says, it's solid plastic and all reports I've heard are that it last much longer than the early design. (It's also spring-loaded, not oil pressure loaded, so that can be seen to be an advantage too - no cold starts with loose chains..). It's exactly the same size/shape as the earlier tensioner, so it should be interchangeable with the early design, even if you stick with the early dual-chain setup.

That said, this is all academic, since you don't have a Corrado yet! :)

 

Are you getting the newer upper blade put on yours Matt? Could you get the part numbers if you do please? I'm going to check my tensioner when I do the Shrek and if it's fecked, then I'll do the chain job myself, prolly change the crankshaft seal too for good measure, cause if *I* have to drop the box, it sure as hell ain't coming off again under my ownership!

 

K

[dr_mat 0]

I'm not sure, Kev. I talked to Vince about it, and he wasn't keen, cos he's never tried it before. He can't think of a reason why it *won't* work, but is a little reluctant to try it out.

As pointed out, even fitting the original (stupid) tensioner will give ya another 80-120k miles of life before it needs doing again, and tbh I suspect the rest of the engine will be a gonner before that happens.

You starting to wonder if your chains are "doing a corrado" then, kev? :(

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I'm not sure, Kev. I talked to Vince about it, and he wasn't keen, cos he's never tried it before. He can't think of a reason why it *won't* work, but is a little reluctant to try it out.

As pointed out, even fitting the original (stupid) tensioner will give ya another 80-120k miles of life before it needs doing again, and tbh I suspect the rest of the engine will be a gonner before that happens.

You starting to wonder if your chains are "doing a corrado" then, kev? :(

 

I can see where he's coming from. Guess who will get the blame if the tensioner breaks?!

 

As for my chains....I suspect they are not too happy judging by the lack of power I've got and a lot of engine noise/vibration, although curiously there is no actual chain slap noise and the engine is good and strong when cold and up to 4000rpm.....then it just gets noisy and rough. Just aswell I have the Shrek coming, so there won't be any need to go over 4000 rpm any more :lol:

 

Actually, Phat mentioned a hydraulic bolt behind the upper tensioner that sometimes benefits from a clean out....might try that before assuming the worst.

 

If the chains do need doing then I'll be booking a week off work and the petrol, labour and VAT saved by not going to Stealth will pay for a few more preventative measures whilst I'm in the engine bay!

 

K

[dr_mat 0]

Yeah, the upper tensioner is tensioned by a hydraulic bolt, big fat bugger on the back of the tensioner housing. I'd guess it's quite feasible for it to become blocked and to fail to operate correctly, but I'd say if that's happening then it's a bad sign - what does that say about the state of the rest of the engine?

I'm learning quickly that anything that goes on all Corrados will have gone on mine, no point in worrying about it, just fork out the dosh and pick it up when it's done...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, the upper tensioner is tensioned by a hydraulic bolt, big fat bugger on the back of the tensioner housing. I'd guess it's quite feasible for it to become blocked and to fail to operate correctly, but I'd say if that's happening then it's a bad sign - what does that say about the state of the rest of the engine?

 

I'll inspect it and see what gives.....

 

I'm learning quickly that anything that goes on all Corrados will have gone on mine, no point in worrying about it, just fork out the dosh and pick it up when it's done...

 

Matt?? Are you feeling alright? This is a completely different attitude to the "buying a D reg Fiesta" attitude :wink: Guess you're not giving up on her yet then? Good stuff.

 

K

[PhatVR6 0]

I just done my chains, I stuck with the 12v stuff, I know it's good for 80K easy, I can't see me doing that sort of mileage before I pull the motor to bits again.

 

If anyone needs any tips on doing chains or timing I can do a write up with pics?

[dr_mat 0]

There's already an excellent step-by-step write up over on the vwvortex 12v VR6 forum. Ok, it was specifically for the late single chains, but it's still a brilliant write up. Wouldn't want you to spend a load of time reinventing the wheel, Phat..