Holy burning oil fields batman!

[Dilated 0]

I swear to god my car is burning as much oil as the kuwait oil fields in the last gulf war.

I have heard something along the lines of 1 litre per 1000miles is kinda normal for a VR (if I remember correctly).

As I have only just bought my beast recently, I have been checking the oil frequently just to try and gauge how much the thing actually uses (was told around a litre to a 1000 miles by the last owner), but I topped the thing up on saturday night before a run down to walsall (260 mile round trip). Did 130 miles there on the night, and 130 miles home the next day. Ran the car to work tuesday/wednesday (couple of miles) - checked the oil tonight and the bloody dip stick was dry after cleaning and plunging it again!!!

 

Took approx 2.5 - 3 litres at a guess...

 

I wasn't really caning in on the motorway, the occassional blat up a slip road, but mostly a steady 80-85 on both journey's.

 

The car smokes on cold start up, looks white/grey but is nice and clear when warm. I do notice it pump out some smoke if i boot it (mostly on gear change I think) Could'nt tell you what colour the smoke is though.

 

My pops seems to think a possibly explanation would be the hydraulic tappets (the seals) and that we could whip the head of and sort them ourselves (got the bentley manual) But I thought I would ask on the forum first for any ideas!

 

Don't seem to have an oil leak under the car, only bloody power steering fluid! (as far as i can tell!)

 

Thanks in advance

(a rather worried) Chris

[dr_mat 0]

That's a lot of oil! Mine doesn't use much - about 1 litre every 10k miles.

It's most likely to be either the valve stem seals, which last about 100k usually, or the bores and rings.. (Which could last 500k if people knew how to treat cars properly.)

Neither are easy/cheap. :(

Of course, I'm assuming there's no sign of mayo and no sign of oil in the water here. The head gasket would be another contender.

[chris CORRADO 0]

if there is black smoke LOL means the piston rings have gone??? and the black smoke is the oil burning???

 

LOL my car uses more coolent the petrol. LOL damm cap has a leak init...

:oops:

[G60Dan 0]

Blue smoke is oil.

White is water

black is fuel or a sooty exhaust

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If you're blowing smoke during gear changes, you've got bore wear.

 

Check plugs 1 and 6, I'll bet they're oiled up.

 

K

[Dilated 0]

Cheers guys.

I'll take a look at the plugs tonight when I get in.

The engine has only done 75k too! :(

 

Whats involved in getting it sorted if it turns out to be bore wear?

And would my poor fuel consumption and excessive oil burning be attributed to this?

 

By poor fuel consumption I mean around 24-26 steady motorway driving (wouldn't consider this POOR, but not as good as my bro's!), whereas my brothers VR can quite easily jump up to 30-32 at the same speed on the motorway.

[Geo 0]

It's looking bad for the engine if it's losing that much oil. VW say up to 1L per 1000km is "normal" but a healthy engine shouldn't use anything like that much once it's run in. As the guys say it's more than likely to be valve stem seals and/or piston rings + bore wear. Probably the first one since the car has low mileage. Low mileage cars are in some ways more likely to suffer this problem as the seals tend to go hard from lack of use and contaminated oil which has been left in the car too long. (as I'm sure you know oil should be changed at least once a year regardless of mileage)

 

ps: If it is bore wear there would be other symptoms such as the car being hard to start when hot. Also, when the engine is at normal operating temperature, take off the oil filler cap. If there are puffs of what looks like steam coming out then the rings and bores are worn too much.

[dr_mat 0]

These cars get nailed from day one in so many cases.. It's almost impossible to find a good one, sadly. You also have to check VERY hard to make sure that 75k miles is for real. A lot of 'em get clocked.

As a guideline, a full engine rebore, plus head recon will cost about £2700 from Stealth, but you can buy a "new" engine - rebored 2.8 usually from VW for about £3600, and at least that way you can look forward to another 100,000 miles of VR6 fun.

[TimVR 0]

Hi Chris,

 

2.5 to 3 litres in 260 miles just doesn't sound right to me...the car was using about 1 litre (top to bottom of hatch markings) per 1000kms when I owned it, honest! What did help (and I have no idea why) was a fuel treatment, it slowed the consumption right down for a while, but did come back to 1l/1000kms. I did post on this subject when I had the car, might be worth checking? If you really are getting through that amount of oil I'd expect the oil pressure light would be coming on?

 

Would be surpised if there was bore wear, I'd expect rough running if plugs were oiled? Never had that in 14 months and 12k in the car. You seem to observe the same smoking as I did (on giving it a bit of stick - 5k ish). Never any hot starting problems either

 

I would think whipping the head off would give you the best idea of assessing the problem as you say.

 

If you want to discuss anything offline please feel free to ring me, I'll happily go through my experiences if they are of any use to you.

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

[Kevin Bacon 5]

the car was using about 1 litre (top to bottom of hatch markings) per 1000kms

 

Which is only 600 miles per litre.....i.e. a serious problem.

 

K

[Geo 0]

the car was using about 1 litre (top to bottom of hatch markings) per 1000kms

 

Which is only 600 miles per litre.....i.e. a serious problem.

 

K

 

Exactly but in the owners manual VW say anthing up to this is "normal"

 

But you are right, I would consider that to be an indication that something is seriously wrong! I used to have an old mk2 golf diesel with the engine knackered in it and it still didn't use that much oil!

[TimVR 0]

or what VW suggest in the handbook....and certainly not 3 litres in 260 miles!!

 

Tim

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Ignore the handbook. That statement is there purely to cover their backs in case of complaints of high oil consumption. VW can't guarantee the consumption levels of any particular engine because we all use our cars differently. More miles = more oil consumption, so billy boy racer might need a fortnightly top up whereas Biddy Bob might only need a Bi-annual top up.

 

If used a every day, a healthy VR should only need a slight top up to max once a month. Mine uses about a litre every 3500-4000 miles.

[TimVR 0]

fair enough....

 

any idea why the fuel treatment worked for a while?

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

[Geo 0]

fair enough....

 

any idea why the fuel treatment worked for a while?

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

 

It may have worked it's way up to the valve stem seals and softened them up temporarily. You can actually get an oil treatment designed to do that but it rarely works. Still might be worth a try though given the cost of a head overhaul and engine rebuild

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No idea about the fuel additive!!

 

I suppose all you can do is stick the car on the rollers and see if it gives anywhere near factory power. If it's way down and all the sensors are OK, then the bores are worn. If it is giving good power, then it's just the valve stems/seals. A leak-down and or compression test would give you another idea too.

 

K

[corradovr6sc 0]

Is blow-back through the dipstick a sign of bore wear?

[Geo 0]

Is blow-back through the dipstick a sign of bore wear?

 

It can be. If there is what looks like steam coming up out of the dipstick then it means there is bore and/or piston ring wear. However, most VW's (don't know about the VR6) can't blow back through the dipstick as the dipstick tube is submerged in oil in the sump so if there is nothing coming out when you take out the dipstick with the engine running it doesn't necessarily mean you are in the clear. So the best way to check is at the oil filler cap. Get the engine good and hot and open the filler cap with the engine idling. If you can't see anything coming out you are ok.

[Dilated 0]

Hmmm, i seem to remember mines slightly steaming from the oil filler cap when the engine was warm. I'll double check tonight. Is it normal for a little bit of steam, and only if there is a lot it indicates bore wear?

 

I went to G&S today to ask get something for my girls little Mark1 Golf, and just asked about my VR burning oil while I was there, and the guy said that VW actually recalled all the VR6 motors back in the early days due to there being a problem with them - the bores would score very early on in life. He said his buddy bought a new one in '93, put 2000 miles on it and then when they were recalled, VW put a new engine in it! He reckoned that not everyone will have taken theirs back, hence a load knocking about nowadays with ropey engines. I'm not sure how true this would be of a '95 engine, considering they knew about the fault, you'd have thought they would have sorted it on on later engines.

 

He did seem to think it was probably going to be the valve stem seals though, just judging by what i told him about the car.

 

Tim, don't take any of my posts as a dig at you in any way. Obviously it sucks ass that i'm having problems so early on in my ownership of the car, but I acknowledge the fact you're not much of a mechanic and seemed a nice honest chap - so it's cool. Looks like i'm diving straight into the deep (wallet) end of corrado ownership!

 

I still have use of my little Cab and have some time off work soon, so i'm thinking of whipping the head off and having a look/go at doing some of the work myself. (Clutching my brothers Bentley manual of course!)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Is blow-back through the dipstick a sign of bore wear?

 

It can be. If there is what looks like steam coming up out of the dipstick then it means there is bore and/or piston ring wear. However, most VW's (don't know about the VR6) can't blow back through the dipstick as the dipstick tube is submerged in oil in the sump so if there is nothing coming out when you take out the dipstick with the engine running it doesn't necessarily mean you are in the clear. So the best way to check is at the oil filler cap. Get the engine good and hot and open the filler cap with the engine idling. If you can't see anything coming out you are ok.

 

Interesting little test that, not heard of that before. Just checked mine and there's no smoke/steam when removing the oil filler cap, just oil splashing about!. However, wouldn't the engine be sucking in it's blow-by gases via the throttle body anyway?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

the guy said that VW actually recalled all the VR6 motors back in the early days due to there being a problem with them - the bores would score very early on in life. He said his buddy bought a new one in '93, put 2000 miles on it and then when they were recalled, VW put a new engine in it!

 

Go to the dealer, give them your reg and they'll tell you what recalls it has had.

 

I've not heard of a mass recall on VR engines as they're known to be very tough in the industry. Well, the 2.8 is, the 2.9 does however die quite early for reasons unknown. Always bores 1 and 6 to go first....

 

If there is any doubt, there is no doubt.....so time to start saving for that head rebuild :(

 

K

[dr_mat 0]

The crank case is *supposed* to breathe into the induction system, yes, but it'll breathe anywhere it can escape to a lower pressure environment, so if you pull the oil filler cap it'll breathe there I would imagine..

[Geo 0]

The crank case is *supposed* to breathe into the induction system, yes, but it'll breathe anywhere it can escape to a lower pressure environment, so if you pull the oil filler cap it'll breathe there I would imagine..

 

Yeah but that won't look like steam. In a healthy engine if you put your hand over the oil filler hole you can feel air escaping. That's normal. It's when you can see the puffs coming out that you know there's a problem. It's caused by combustion gases blowing past the pistons on each firing stroke due to the poor compression caused by the wear on the bore/piston rings. A compression test will tell you the same thing.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

If you're blowing smoke during gear changes, you've got bore wear.

 

Check plugs 1 and 6, I'll bet they're oiled up.

 

K

 

That will be stem seals, as it draws oil past them on overrun when throttle is shut,if bores where wore that much it would smoke all the time.You will l here it knocking from stone cold too :(

Not steping on toes Kev :wink:

 

First thing i would do is pull the head off and get the stem seals changed as they account for a lot of oil burnig,while you at it drop sump off and check the rings . :wink:

[Dilated 0]

Is this something I could do myself?

Well, silly question that I know - but do I need any specialist tools or anything?

 

I've always worked on/serviced my own cars (all veedubs) but never taken the engine to bits, always cv joints, bearings, done a timing belt before but thats about it.

I have the Bentley manual and me pops has pretty much every tool you can imagine and also a lot of engine knowledge, so it should be fine I guess.

 

Is there anything I should take care about, any major do's and don'ts?

I think i'd rather have a bash at it myself than shell out a fortune to have it done, unless of course it's gonna be a complete bastard of a job!

 

Cheers

Chris