Brake master cylinder

[bmwcompact 10]

My 93 corrado 2l 16v has ATE 10.6123-0680.3 master cylinder. Various sources suggest that other VWs with ABS have compatible cylinders. Is this really so? The nearest I can find is 10.6123-0690.3 on some MK 3 golfs, but is this a completely different part/ identical/ as good as the same. Neither part can be found on the ATE online catalogue. I'm looking for hard facts please.

Edited February 17, 2012 by bmwcompact
spelling mistake: incorrect info given

[Tristan H 10]

i have a similar problem , I assume yours is a 23.8 mm one , with 3 outlets from the tank , 2 to the ABS unit and one to the clutch? And 2 hard pipes from it , plus a bleed nipple at the end . If so , I've failed to get one from VW (discontinued from 2010!??) , GSF and OTTO .

[dragon green 4]

Allegedly you can still get it from VW it comes complete with servo, for mega money !!

[Tristan H 10]

hmmm , the non-available one was on the edge of my budget as it was! Wonder would a Sharan one work... bigger diameter too , I'd make the mounts work somehow if the bottle fitted on...

[bmwcompact 10]

i have a similar problem , I assume yours is a 23.8 mm one , with 3 outlets from the tank , 2 to the ABS unit and one to the clutch? And 2 hard pipes from it , plus a bleed nipple at the end . If so , I've failed to get one from VW (discontinued from 2010!??) , GSF and OTTO .

 

The Brake master is VW part no 358 611 019D: My original post was to try to ascertain sources of used cylinders cos its not possible to find a new one!! I'd read that some Golfs with ABS from 92-94 had the same part. There were some for sale on Ebay for example. The ATE part no was not identical to that on my car. I have ATE 10.6123-0680.3, the 6123 says its got a 23 mm bore (23.8). If it was 6122 it would be 22mm and not suitable. I found a cylinder with ATE no 10.6123-0690.3 from 94 Golf GTI 8v. So what's the difference between these cylinders? By checking other listings on the ATE online catalogue, I concluded that 0690 is a slightly later version of 0680 but in effect the same cylinder. Thats my belief, I am waiting for someone to agree/disagree. On that basis I have bought a spare from Ebay 10.6123.0690.3 to store for possible future need. You need to do your own investigation, but if you come the the same conclusion as me, then the Golf is a source of a replacement brake master providing it meets these citeria.

[Tristan H 10]

yeah , the 2.0 16v (ABF) mk3 is supposed to be the same . Is the one you got alloy or cast iron?

[bmwcompact 10]

yeah , the 2.0 16v (ABF) mk3 is supposed to be the same . Is the one you got alloy or cast iron?

 

Mine is cast iron. It looks almost new-I think it must have a replacement. But be careful, there were several MK3 Golf cylinders on Ebay which definitely were not the correct one.

[dragon green 4]

Got a price for a mastercylinder this morning,you have to buy it with the ABS unit, £1575 !!!!

The computer showed one available

[Tristan H 10]

hum.... I'd buy a car for less!! Surely there must be some other ATE cylinder that works.... surely? I'm getting desperate now.

[Tristan H 10]

hum.... I'd buy a car for less!! Surely there must be some other ATE cylinder that works.... surely? I'm getting desperate now.

 

http://www.pastparts.co.uk/products.htm

 

these people say they will rebuild one...

[dragon green 4]

Have you spoke to them ?

Do they know yours is the ABS cylinder ?

how long a guarantee?

How much ?

sorry for all the questions,but i believe the cylinder is the Achilles heel of our Corrados!

[DriverVR6 11]

dragon green, I agree the brake master cylinder is a problem. When I was renewing my braking system (93 plate VR6) I wanted to fit a new master cylinder, but could just not locate one. One very helpful parts supplier showed me every one they had in stock and none of them was the right one! Even the VW dealer said I would need to take it off and bring it in to have it identified. Luckily, mine was fine so I just left it in. These pastparts.co.uk people may be worth contacting, thanks Tristan H for the link.

[Tristan H 10]

My dad spoke to them , I plan on ringing with more info and queries tomorrow . About a 48hr turnaround , IIRC it was about £120 .

[Tristan H 10]

Didn't ring them as thought I'd found one... but in the meanwhile I see Audi A4 ones , from the late 90's , early 00s look similar , but with a larger bore , which would be good , anyone have access to them (Pat MaCrotch??) , to be able to do some measuring? One of the pipes has a larger nut , but that's easily fixed .

[Roger Blassberg 0]

A larger bore master cylinder will mean less pedal travel but you'll need to push harder to get the same braking effort (in proportion to the second power of the ratio of the diameters) - it's like having a shorter lever to raise a load.

 

RB

[Tristan H 10]

A larger bore master cylinder will mean less pedal travel but you'll need to push harder to get the same braking effort (in proportion to the second power of the ratio of the diameters) - it's like having a shorter lever to raise a load.

 

RB

 

You are 100% correct, but that is exactly the result most C drivers are looking for , especially those with larger discs/calipers.

[RW1 0]

You are 100% correct, but that is exactly the result most C drivers are looking for , especially those with larger discs/calipers.

 

Or the fact the brake pedal position sensor will be wrong.

 

The Brake master is VW part no 358 611 019D:

ATE part no was not identical to that on my car. I have ATE 10.6123-0680.3, the 6123 says its got a 23 mm bore (23.8). If it was 6122 it would be 22mm and not suitable. I found a cylinder with ATE no 10.6123-0690.3 from 94 Golf GTI 8v.

 

I have bought a spare from Ebay 10.6123.0690.3 to store for possible future need.

The original spare part back in 1995 was 358 611 019B. This was ATE 10.6123-680.3. (23.81 x 17/17 - RHD ABS Teves 04 brake system).

 

Fitted right up to the end of RHD production Corrado in June 1995.

 

The current and last spare part available, revised somewhere between 1997 & 2003 is 358 611 019D. This part is ATE 10.6123-0690.3. The part is interchangeable with the "0680.3" earlier version. (23.81 x 17/17 - RHD ABS Teves 04 barke system).

 

 

Interestingly the RHD VR6 Golf and Passat are using ATE 03.2123-1484.3 Master Cylinder for the brakes today as a spare. Both used previously the same replaceable part - 358 611 019D on the VR6 RHD models

Note the forward brake circuit connection is differently positioned slightly (red circle). Same cylinder diameter & stroke of 23.81 x 17/17.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54609[/ATTACH]

 

And before you ask.... The bleed nipple is missing. That is because in the original fit & spare, the forward piston/cylinder was not self bleeding as the brake pipe feed is on the bottom of the cylinder. In the photo above, the take off point is on the top side, so it self bleeds.

 

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Edited March 8, 2012 by RW1

[Tristan H 10]

So is that one pictured above available , and will fit?

[RW1 0]

Thats on the ATE website today. EuroCarParts are their UK agent according to their website.

 

Classic parts on-line catalogue accessible from here...

 

http://www.ate.de/generator/www/com/en/ate/ate/themes/20_catalogues/productinfo_cataloging_en.html

 

Select VW and then work into the brakes section for Golf/Passat.

 

http://www.ate.de/generator/www/com/en/ate/ate/themes/30_ate_classic/ate_classic_en,tabNr=4.html

 

You need to ask ATE De. why its listed for the Golf/Passat VR6 RHD but not the Corrado RHD. All three cars use the same ABS Master Cylinder 358 611 019D.

 

In fitting as I've pointed out, the front brake pipe connection on the Corrado (as Golf/Passat) will have to be replaced to get it to reach the new Master Cylinder front connection. But then we do have resources for that on this forum :D

 

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[bmwcompact 10]

Its good to get confirmation the used cylinder I've bought is the correct one for the Corrado. Its even better news that a new replacement has been identified albeit with a minor mod to pipework. Ive Googled the new cylinder and see lots of companies in Germany etc selling it 170-230 Euros (but nothing in UK). I think lots of owners will want to know this info. How can it be made known to them-they wont necessarily read this thread and Im a Newbie so dont know how you handle these issues!

[RW1 0]

I think lots of owners will want to know this info. How can it be made known to them-they wont necessarily read this thread and Im a Newbie so dont know how you handle these issues!

Someone needs to talk to ATE first about... vvvvv

 

You need to ask ATE De. why its listed for the Golf/Passat VR6 RHD but not the Corrado RHD. All three cars use the same ABS Master Cylinder 358 611 019D.

 

I've only draw a parrallel based on VW part numbers and the ATE website info!

(Not me, I've got my NOS spares stored away.)

 

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[STU175 0]

Didn't ring them as thought I'd found one... but in the meanwhile I see Audi A4 ones , from the late 90's , early 00s look similar , but with a larger bore , which would be good , anyone have access to them (Pat MaCrotch??) , to be able to do some measuring? One of the pipes has a larger nut , but that's easily fixed .

 

ah can anyone tell me if this would be the mastercylinder i need to fit my s2 front caliper to my 91 g60?

[Tristan H 10]

RW, are you sure it's not a replacement for http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/vw/GO/1995/159/54/1818704/ ? RHD VR6 Golf , but with the cylinder mounts across the centre line , not diagonally? There were at least 2 types of system on the mk3 .

[RW1 0]

Yeah, a little bit more digging shows that the part is that one. Hadn't noticed on the Passat 3A2 that about 15 months of production has the ATE Teves Mk20 brake set-up.

 

Also see why it can't go on the Corrado. The mounting plate has brake servo stud holes orientated differently as you say.

 

Shame really.

 

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