Rebuild or R32?

[somersetdub 0]

Hi everyone, my Corrado Vr6's engine is slowly becoming more and more rattly on startup and I suspect the chains are getting noisy too. So I am currently contemplating a full rebuild on another vr6 engine I have, but I keep on getting tempted by the other option of buying a decent r32 engine and doing a conversion.

In either case I would be doing most of the mechanical work myself, but may leave wiring etc for a specialist.

Just wondered what peoples opinions are of costs involved and the differences in character between the vr6 and r32 engines. Obviously the r32 engine is more powerful, but how much quicker is it when fitted into the Corrado?

Also is there anyone in the South/South West with an r32 converted to Corrado who wants to take me for a spin so I can see for myself?!

 

Thanks

[swiftkid 1]

I looked into doing this, I even bought the R32 engine to put into it but the main thing to consider is cost and how far you want to go with each. The R32 is apparently a totally different animal to the VR6 but from what I have heard its a thirsty gal! It also has a lot of power bottom end where the VR6 lacks, plus its about 280bhp after the remap!

 

I reckon on a budget and doing things yourself you won't get much change from £2k to do an r32 conversion, the engine will be around £1200 then you have custom downpipe at about £350, wiring is about £200-300 from mark at swict (might be worth having a chat as hes south west way) then theres the remap and all the little bits and bobs you never realise you need. Not saying its a bad idea, I've only heard good things from doing the R32 conversion but it depends how long you are wanting to keep the car for and what you use it for.

[somersetdub 0]

Indeed. Well I only use the car occasionally- weekends etc, as the fuel economy is already fairly thirsty!

I've just been thinking that by the time I've fully rebuilt a vr6 engine and replaced sensors etc it could be well over a grand.

Where do people usually source engines from? All the ones I see on fleabay usually are bare, with no loom or ancillaries.. I know there was one for sale on here the other day, but they don't seem to come up with all parts required too often.

The extra power would be welcomed of course, but to be fair my car does go pretty well as it is. I suppose the r32 engine would put it into another league though!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

There's a good R32 + Loom + ECU package on this very forum from an established and trusted member ;)

 

I resisted the lure of the mighty 32 for many years, instead choosing to stick to the old faithful 12V, albeit with various forms of forced induction. It's an old faithful engine but for me there was an underlying feeling of fragility about it. Not so the 32. You can wring that thing's neck all day every day and it loves it.

 

I put my 32 in last year, with a standalone ECU (already in place from the previous 12V setup) and it's been fantastic. The extra low down torque of the 32 makes the car feel like it's been on the atkins diet. It is so much more responsive and effortlessly accelerative.

If there is one minor complaint I have, it's the acceleration 'feels' like it's run out by 3000ish rpm, but it takes off again at 5000rpm like the 12V does at 4000rpm. Make no mistake, in a Corrado, it is a very quick engine.

 

As Swifty says, the fuel consumption is the pain to balance the pleasure. They absolutely drink the stuff. Lucky to get more than 25mpg out of them, as an average, but lets not forget it is a 3.2 litre engine. I can't think of any petrol engine of that size which can easily return mid to late 30s as an average.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Kevin Bacon

[somersetdub 0]

....I'm tempted, I'm tempted!!!

The fuel consumption doesn't bother me too much.

I thought the complete package that was on here was provisionally sold now? I'll check in a sec.

Is there much to choose between a mk4 and mk5? - performance and fitting wise?

[fla 9]

i can fully appreciate your thoughts and the lure of an R32 and thats when my standard VR engine has only done 72k!!! I'm constantly thinking about a swop rather than enjoying the VR in its original form. If compression is ok in your engine (bottom end fine) and there is nothing majorly wrong with the top end, the cost of chains etc plus HG is only around £250 if you do it yourself. However, it might be worth costing up getting a 2.8 12V rebored to 2.9 if yours is a bit smokey although that may then reach your £1000 expense.

[24V Renshaw 0]

Just out of interested has anyone in the UK done an R36 in a Corrado yet?

 

Jay

[bristolbaron 10]

Just out of interested has anyone in the UK done an R36 in a Corrado yet?

 

Jay

 

We're all waiting for you to do it jay..

 

I seem to remember the phirm getting involved in one, dont know if it ever happened though..

[somersetdub 0]

Exactly. Mine has done 150k and the engine was rebuilt already at 90k, with new rings etc. The rattles do seem to be bottom end based, although it has so many little noises it's hard to tell!!

I already have an AAA engine which I bought some months ago with the intention of boring out to a 2.9, but still thinking an upgrade might be a better bet.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Ah OK, I thought it was still for sale.

 

Mechanically the MK4 & MK5 are slightly different. MK4 has a compression ratio of 11.3:1 and MK5 has a compression ratio of 10.7:1 (IIRC). MK5 also has self contained crankcase breathing. In other words, the rocker outlet goes straight into the intake manifold downstream of the throtte, as opposed to external pipe work routing into the MAF hose upstream of the throttle.

MK5 also has a returnless fuel rail.

 

These minor differences don't really affect the power in any way though but the MK5 is the 'neater' package of the two I guess.

 

For software, I would use the MK4 ECU as it's a more established mapping platform and easier to get maps for. MK5 and MK4 looms are practically the same, bar one or two very minor differences. I have a MK4 loom on my MK5 engine and the only change I had to make was on the exhaust cam VVT solenoid as the connector shape was changed to prevent accidental misconnecting.

 

 

Do it! Plenty of advice on here if you get stuck!

[somersetdub 0]

Thanks :-)

I shall commence the hunt for a package!

[somersetdub 0]

So you can use a mk5 engine and run mk4 loom and ecu?

[swiftkid 1]

Few words of wisdom from a man with experience... DO NOT BUY ONE WITHOUT ALL LOOMS PRESENT!!! you will not find one second hand, took me about 6 months to find one and I must have contacted every VW breaker in the UK. Make sure you get all lambda's, the ECU, the MAF and check that all pipes on the inlet manifold are intact. You need both looms that connect to the ecu uncut!

 

When I bought mine the moron had snapped one of the plastic pipes off the back of the manifold (£200 second hand on ebay), kept all the lambda's for himself (cheapest I could find them second hand was about £70 each), ecu to cabin loom (£200), MAF (£50+) so you can see how costs can soon spiral after you spot a 'bargain'. The guy did get put in hospital for ripping people off so thats karma for you.

 

---------- Post added at 1:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 1:26 PM ----------

 

So you can use a mk5 engine and run mk4 loom and ecu?

 

Yes, but I would use a mk4 based engine for a number of reasons. I'm not sure after the remap but the Audi TT engine has 10 more bhp from factory than the R32 and comes with the fuel pressure regulator like the mk4.

[Jim 2]

After reading so many posts from people who've not been 100% happy with R32 conversions (e.g. herisites with the flat spot issues, etc) I think I'd always stick with the 12v, even if there was a financial and power advantage in going 24v / R32!

[somersetdub 0]

My understanding was that the flat spot/jerky throttle etc could be cured with a decent remap?

But Jim, I understand what you're saying, I love my car for its smooth throttle response and good manners and would be quite annoyed if I spent out loads on an engine which ended up having neither.

[robo22sri 10]

I have a solid rebuilt golf 2.8 12v vr6 for £250 :)

 

I have the reciepts for the work done and videos of it running before it came out

[JJS 0]

ok different cars so not quite the same comparison as a straight engine swap but i currently jump daily from a Corrado VR6 with Schrick (An AMD production and rebuilt by Stealth Racing) then back into a standard Mk4 Golf R32. I to feel that the R32 has flat spots and then feels a bit jerky when the power kicks in whereas I find the VR6 so so smooth in comparison. May be just my driving and i'm still getting used to the R...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yes, R36 is so last year :D Been done a few times in the UK, with and without boost.

 

The flatspots and jerkiness of the R32 is totally down to the VW/Audi software. Mine is nothing like that.

 

the Audi TT engine has 10 more bhp from factory than the R32 and comes with the fuel pressure regulator like the mk4.

 

Only on the DSG TT because of it's bigger MAF housing than the MK4. A common retro fit to the MK4 is the MK5/Audi A3/TT MAF housing. 10-15hp after remap for extra air flow. But all of the 3.2 24Vs, regardless of MK4 or MK4 flavour make the same peak power when remapped. i.e. ~ 280hp

 

---------- Post added at 3:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 3:50 PM ----------

 

ok different cars so not quite the same comparison as a straight engine swap but i currently jump daily from a Corrado VR6 with Schrick (An AMD production and rebuilt by Stealth Racing) then back into a standard Mk4 Golf R32. I to feel that the R32 has flat spots and then feels a bit jerky when the power kicks in whereas I find the VR6 so so smooth in comparison. May be just my driving and i'm still getting used to the R...

 

That's because the 12V has no torque low down. It's like riding a bull versus a fresian cow.

[24V Renshaw 0]

Yes, R36 is so last year :D Been done a few times in the UK, with and without boost..

 

not seen one in a UK Rado yet? Got any details?

 

Jay

[JJS 0]

 

That's because the 12V has no torque low down. It's like riding a bull versus a fresian cow.

 

Sounds spot on. If I had the talents you have kev under the bonnet I'd probably not have ended up with 2 motors. )

[Kevin Bacon 5]

not seen one in a UK Rado yet? Got any details?

 

Jay

 

Ah, Corrado specifically. MK3s and MK2s it's been done. Lizard Racing on here did one and Storm Developments have done a couple. I'm sure one of them was a Corrado tho? But we know it's possible if it fits in a MK2 though :D

Personally I feel it's a bridge too far. The R32 is already too much torque for a Corrado chassis to deploy effectively. An R36 would be crazy. I know that sounds ironic coming from a man who had 400hp going through his front wheels not so long ago, but it's because of that experience I can tell you that a FWD corrado with too much grunt can be quite a handful :D

 

And also the R36 will cripple your wallet at the pumps and I'm not sure what spares availability is like as it only appeared in one car in this country.

 

A mid engined R36 Corrado would be an interesting project though!

[Fanjita 1]

somersetdub;

 

I have been playing with exactly those two options over the last week. I have some figures to maybe help you.

I received some quotes from certain companies all turned up to be around the same price.

 

VR6 Rebuilds (with engine removed by me and handed over):

Stealth £2450 +VAT

VEGE £2500 + VAT - normally have engines on the shelf but no ABV at the moment, would rebuild own and send out

Local Rebuilder £2500 + VAT

 

all with a 12 month warranty, amazing how consistent the prices were!

 

I did look into getting the engine stripped myself, but a lot of the cost above was parts, getting it machined was something I would have to send off for. First of all I struggled massively finding a machinist to quote me on skimming the engine parts. It really was looking like a hell of a lot of work to attempt this cheap, with the possiblility that it would still cost a lot anyway.

 

Then after this information, I saw the R32 + all required equipment for sale on the forums (yes it was me, i've paid the deposit, sorry!). It really was a no brainer for me.

 

I can't see it costing more than £2500 + VAT to get the R32 in and working, so I'm going that route. Plus the added bonus of having 50 extra hp from the start is just too tempting. I did question Vince when looking into the hp boost option (as it makes sense when the block is in bits to chuck in a few goodies), and just to scrape 220 hp if you're lucky, would cost around £1500 (cams, bigger valves and a polish).

 

I hope all my research has helped you come to a decision, and I am sorry for jumping at the R32 on the classifieds!

 

Picking it up sunday, wish me luck!

[robo22sri 10]

VEGE won't be doing anymore rebuilt AAA or ABV

 

I bought the last one in January :)

 

And that was no exchange!

Edited March 20, 2012 by robo22sri

[Critical_Mass 10]

VEGE won't be doing anymore rebuilt AAA or ABV

 

I bought the last one in January :)

 

Really? Whys that?

[robo22sri 10]

Really? Whys that?

 

They don't stock the parts anymore

 

I bought the last one on a non exchange! Came from the Netherlands