Rebuild or R32?

[Critical_Mass 10]

They don't stock the parts anymore

 

I bought the last one on a non exchange! Came from the Netherlands

 

When i got mine it was exchange basis only, to keep production going. I thought it was always on an exchange basis. Though maybe they planned to stop making them so let you buy your as no exchange.

 

 

Thats a shame to hear though, maybe there's no demand for refurb VR engines anymore as im sure its more cost effective to go for a 1.8T or something.

 

saying that just readings Fanjita's post it looks as though they'll rebuild your own and send it out.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Critical_Mass

[Fanjita 1]

Yeah thats exactly it Gaz, no exchange units, so they offered to refurb mine with a turnaround of 3 weeks for the quoted price.

[robo22sri 10]

They said to me that they weren't doing them again lol

 

I got told the engine I bought had been in the warehouse for a while and they didn't get much interest in the vr6 anymore

 

They are doing new cylinder heads for £200

[somersetdub 0]

somersetdub;

 

I have been playing with exactly those two options over the last week. I have some figures to maybe help you.

I received some quotes from certain companies all turned up to be around the same price.

 

VR6 Rebuilds (with engine removed by me and handed over):

Stealth £2450 +VAT

VEGE £2500 + VAT - normally have engines on the shelf but no ABV at the moment, would rebuild own and send out

Local Rebuilder £2500 + VAT

 

all with a 12 month warranty, amazing how consistent the prices were!

 

I did look into getting the engine stripped myself, but a lot of the cost above was parts, getting it machined was something I would have to send off for. First of all I struggled massively finding a machinist to quote me on skimming the engine parts. It really was looking like a hell of a lot of work to attempt this cheap, with the possiblility that it would still cost a lot anyway.

 

Then after this information, I saw the R32 + all required equipment for sale on the forums (yes it was me, i've paid the deposit, sorry!). It really was a no brainer for me.

 

I can't see it costing more than £2500 + VAT to get the R32 in and working, so I'm going that route. Plus the added bonus of having 50 extra hp from the start is just too tempting. I did question Vince when looking into the hp boost option (as it makes sense when the block is in bits to chuck in a few goodies), and just to scrape 220 hp if you're lucky, would cost around £1500 (cams, bigger valves and a polish).

 

I hope all my research has helped you come to a decision, and I am sorry for jumping at the R32 on the classifieds!

 

Picking it up sunday, wish me luck!

 

Hi Fanj, congratulations on the new engine, I'm sure it will be a beast - are you fitting it yourself?

I too have contacted Vege and they told me exactly the same as they told you. I'm sure only a few years ago they were doing rebuilt vr's for only around £1500, so 2500 seems very expensive indeed. I don't blame you for going for the r32 engine, it should be great once it's in :-)

 

 

 

I'm still undecided on what I'm going to do. As i said in an earlier post, I already have another vr6 engine standing by awaiting a rebuild. I know a place locally where I would get the machining work done and I think I could rebuild it for less than the price of installing an r32. But the questions for me still are really:-

 

Is an r32 running standard management (albeit on a custom map) as smooth and as drivable as a vr6?

 

Is the 280bhp the car would potentially have blatantly too much for the traction and the chassis balance etc?

 

If I do the conversion I want to be sure I'm actually 'improving' the car, not just making it faster.

Drivability is a big factor for me.

[lewvw 10]

This sounds pretty simple, the R32 is supposedly a dream to drive if mapped properly, but is more expensive - so if you can afford the initial cost and bear in mind it will keep on hitting the wallet harder than a well rebuilt 12v then it's R32, but if you want familiarity and more cash for the other things it will let you down on then it's the trusty ol' 12v ;)

[Portent 0]

Also consider the cost of higher insurance on the R32 every year, and the potential to reduce your buyers market when selling.

 

On balance I would probably go with the VR6 rebuild although it's a tough decision.

[C5 OEM 0]

With the price of complete vr`s at the moment i`d buy one with a good engine and throw that in...

[24V Renshaw 0]

What about the compromise of the 4motion 24v. Not got the top end of the R32, but you can pick em up for pennies and they return a good 35+ mpg if setup right.

I absolutely loved the drivability of mine when I built it. It's not got the silly fun at over 4k but it feels so much more nippy bottom end.

 

If I am honest if my VR implodes an R32 will probably find its way under the bonnet :)

 

Jay

[Fanjita 1]

Hi Fanj, congratulations on the new engine, I'm sure it will be a beast - are you fitting it yourself?

I too have contacted Vege and they told me exactly the same as they told you. I'm sure only a few years ago they were doing rebuilt vr's for only around £1500, so 2500 seems very expensive indeed. I don't blame you for going for the r32 engine, it should be great once it's in :-)

 

 

 

I'm still undecided on what I'm going to do. As i said in an earlier post, I already have another vr6 engine standing by awaiting a rebuild. I know a place locally where I would get the machining work done and I think I could rebuild it for less than the price of installing an r32. But the questions for me still are really:-

 

Is an r32 running standard management (albeit on a custom map) as smooth and as drivable as a vr6?

 

Is the 280bhp the car would potentially have blatantly too much for the traction and the chassis balance etc?

 

If I do the conversion I want to be sure I'm actually 'improving' the car, not just making it faster.

Drivability is a big factor for me.

 

I'll be doing this all myself yes!

 

It's a bit daunting but everything that's needed fixing on my car I've fixed, I've also removed the head before and a few other mammoth tasks. I think I can handle it, engine out, engine in, few modifications, rewire, recode, bam!

 

I'll be quite happy with the standard output (237-247 hp isnt it?).

 

As far as I know as it really fits just like the original, so one can assume that it would feel like the original only quieter, more torquey and may be slightly twitchy on the DBW pedal (from what ive heard).

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Is the 280bhp the car would potentially have blatantly too much for the traction and the chassis balance etc?

 

Mine's running standard power (~250hp) and I have a quaife diff and KW V3s (setup as per KW engineers' recommendation) and it struggled like hell to deploy the power over the winter months. 2nd and 3rd gear especially when the VVT kicks in ~ 2000rpm.

 

It's why VW put it in a 4WD platform ;)

 

If I do the conversion I want to be sure I'm actually 'improving' the car, not just making it faster.

Drivability is a big factor for me.

 

You will be improving the car. It's still a VR6, it's still marketable as a VR6 when you sell it on (just more CCs) and you no longer need to rag it past 4000rpm to find some torque.

[Fanjita 1]

Fish,

 

I have to ask, I was hoping to have all the important bits in the same place, and from what I can see, Chris' pictures look to indicate that the intake manifold is angled right (when looking front to back), which would require the filter to be somewhere overhead the gearbox??

 

How did you manage to get your airbox on the left? Continental intake mani or something?

[bristolbaron 10]

Fish,

 

I have to ask, I was hoping to have all the important bits in the same place, and from what I can see, Chris' pictures look to indicate that the intake manifold is angled right (when looking front to back), which would require the filter to be somewhere overhead the gearbox??

 

How did you manage to get your airbox on the left? Continental intake mani or something?

 

can of worms!

http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?51387-Kevhaywire-s-Corrado-R32&p=752854&viewfull=1#post752854

 

basically feeding the air inlet round the back.. it's an expensive option though, hoses cost about £100.. And still unproven as to the potential losses from feeding hoses over the exhaust manifold..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I've bought a BMC CDA to try on the right hand side (above gearbox) to see if I can feel any difference. I do really like the look of the Corrado airbox though. Kinda tones down the modern looking R32 lump to make it look more at home in a Corrado :D

[bristolbaron 10]

it'll be interesting to see if there is a difference.. how hot does your bay get Kev? Does your fan come on much during normal driving?

 

---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

 

Fanjita - have you considered buying that box with LSD from the seller of the R32 engine?

[24V Renshaw 0]

I personally think the ambient air in the engine bay will be far warmer than nice cool air coming in through a standard airbox duct only briefly passing over a heat source... It looks nicer too... :)

 

Jay

[bristolbaron 10]

Agreed.. Especially considering most aftermarket set ups have an air filter right at the back of the engine bay..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

it'll be interesting to see if there is a difference.. how hot does your bay get Kev? Does your fan come on much during normal driving?

 

Nope, never :D I have 2 slimline fans and the DTA is configured to turn the smaller one on at 93 degrees and the bigger one at 96 degrees or something. To date the bigger one has never come on. The small one only comes on after it's been idling for what feels like forever! :D

 

R32s do seem to run a lot cooler than a 12V, and I'm not even using an aux pump either.

 

Air intake temps are rarely more than 10 degrees above. As Jay says, the location of the stock airbox is perfect for pulling in fresh, cool air.

[lewvw 10]

Why do the 12valves run so damn hot? It's not as if there's a shortage of cooling system parts!

 

Sorry to go off topic :bonk:

[fla 9]

Might just be down to the size of the water galleries in the block? Its a good question, especially as the r32 is a development on the VR block.

[Critical_Mass 10]

Does anyone have any pics of both the VR and the R32 blocks so we can see the water and oil channels in each? Plenty of pics of the VR with its head off, but cant say ive seen an R32 with its head off. Would be interesting to see... though the differences could be minimal, dimension wise, but makes all the difference.

 

Did VW resolve the cylinder bore ovalling like the VR6 suffers with?

 

Infact - Kev is that the R32 in your avatar?

[Fanjita 1]

Fanjita - have you considered buying that box with LSD from the seller of the R32 engine?

 

I am talking to Chris about it yes, but I really think its going to chomp into my budget too much, I'm chatting to him about this at the moment so will see!

 

Otherwise i was just going to get a decent nick standard box (one going for £100 with 75k).

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That's an AUE 2.8 24V head in my Avatar. The R32 head has much bigger valves than that! I never took any pictures of my R32 head when it was off the block unfortunately.

 

The reason the 24Vs run so much cooler is three fold:

 

1) Much improved water galleries. The 12V had poor cooling around cylinders 1 and 6.

 

2) Much bigger head. The head is essentially a big heatsink. The bigger it is, the more heat it can absorb and dissipate.

 

3) Even burn on all 6 cylinders. The injectors are the same distance from the intake valves across all 6. The 12V has poor fuelling on the rear bank, so can run leaner and therefore hotter.

 

Where you really notice all these changes is after a hard thrape. The R32 will just sit there idling as smooth as butter. It does not get all lumpy and rough like a 12V does when it's hot and bothered :D

[lewvw 10]

Cheers Kev, thats good knowledge :thumbleft:

[fla 9]

3) Even burn on all 6 cylinders. The injectors are the same distance from the intake valves across all 6. The 12V has poor fuelling on the rear bank, so can run leaner and therefore hotter.

 

 

Is the OBD2 an improvement on fuel management? If so, will it therefore affect/improve this issue?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not really. It's an air flow issue. On the 12V, the injectors are all in a line in the intake, which means the distance from injector tip to intake valve is much greater the rear bank. When a 12V gets really hot, some of the fuel on the rear bank is lost through evaporation and / or drop-out (where the atomised fuel droplets fall out of suspension) if a short intake is used at low rpms.

 

On the 24V, the injectors are in the head and equidistant from the intake valves. This means the fuelling is far more consistent at all temperatures. It was an essential change otherwise it wouldn't have made it through EU3 emissions.

 

VW did play with assymetric cams on the US market 12Vs to try and combat the rear bank fuelling issues. The run-out US spec 12Vs also got far newer revisions of OBD2 than we did and a much better intake (same as 24V) to keep the gas speed up.

 

Honestly, if you sit and compare a 12V and 24V, there is no way you would bother rebuilding a 12V. The 24V is vastly superior in every way.