nothing we didn't really know about electric cars

[davidwort 0]

"The global warming potential from electric vehicle production is about twice that of conventional vehicles."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19830232

[Jim 2]

I believe the article says that's basically due to the fact that a lot of our power stations are coal fired..

 

I still think if we could get more power from renewable energy, I'd be quite content zipping to work and back in an electric car. They're starting to make some great progress there.

[davidwort 0]

I believe the article says that's basically due to the fact that a lot of our power stations are coal fired..

 

I still think if we could get more power from renewable energy, I'd be quite content zipping to work and back in an electric car. They're starting to make some great progress there.

 

That's why I put the quote in, it's the production that is more polluting and energy intensive, and just how many windmills do you think we would need to power the 20 odd million vehicles on the UK roads?

 

I'm not against electric vehicles per se, it's the misinformation about the 'green' credentials that really annoys me,

oh, that and the fact that if you can afford to buy a 30 grand electric car (LEAF) the average tax payer will subsidise you to the tune of 5 grand plus free road tax.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Electric is a long way off being a viable replacement for internal combustion. It's no coincidence piston engines have stubbornly refused to die in peace. There just isn't anything better at the moment!

 

Small 4 cyl turbos with 40+ cruise MPG is the immediate future..... and you'll see a switch from diesel back to petrol again ;)

[Critical_Mass 10]

Agree with Kev.

 

Besides, something like the LEAF only has 100miles range. WHich for most is fine to get to work and back. But what if you decided to go out again after work. Without having to wait 8 hours for it to charge!!! Not practical.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

They seem to be jumping straight to full electric without first trying an electric hybrid, i.e. a small diesel engine to power an alternator to recharged the batteries. Would probably only need to be a little 3 cylinder job. 150+mpg potential? Makes sense to me. Fewer batteries required, more passenger space and massive range between fill ups.

[Critical_Mass 10]

Is the Prius petrol only?

 

Thing about the Prius isnt no better than a diesel. But would be interesting to see how it does with a diesel in it.

[fla 9]

good comment on the small engined turbos - off boost they're great in terms of economy. Spool up the snail and they give you the extra grunt when required. However, get stuck in traffic with an old VR and you can literally watch the fuel gauge go down. Then again, 4 cylinders sound pathetic no matter how many horses are squeezed out of them.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Is the Prius petrol only?

 

Thing about the Prius isnt no better than a diesel. But would be interesting to see how it does with a diesel in it.

 

That's the other kind of 'hybrid'. A normal petrol engined car with an electric 'booster' motor too. A complete waste of time and as everyone knows, NO WHERE near as economical as claimed.

 

Nope, a proper full electric car with a diesel generator is far more realistic and achievable in the short term. Full electric only is waaaaaaaay off in the future as the battery technology just doesn't exist at the moment.

 

Fla, yep, there's no replacement for displacement, but with Brussels squeezing all the car makers' balls at the moment, they're all having to be seen to make an effort in reducing emissions. But it's not all bad. New M5. V8 turbo and is quicker and lighter than the outgoing V10.

[Butterfly 0]

It's all hyperbole as in 50/60 years (in my uneducated guess) or so we are fuc&ed.

The amount of world resources (coal, oil) we have consumed in the last 100 years and the speed at which that has increased in the last 30/40 years is not sustainable. And even less so when you factor in the huge new demands of emerging China & Africa.

 

We are fuc&ed (or our offspring are) as there is no way there is energy available to continue using it at the rate we have all become accustomed to. And if the energy thing wasn't enough we have filled the seas with plastics (I don't mean visable plastic but broken down plastic particles) and littered space with metal junk.

 

I would be happy to be 100% reassured that in 30/40 years time everything will be fine but I'm not expecting to be around much more than that and with the way things are going I'm quite happy with the thought of getting out of here!

 

P.S. Have a happy Friday & great weekend (while you can!!!)

[jaded2882 0]

I think the worst thing in terms of being 'un-green' is the production of the vehicles themselves. I did a bit of Env Management Systems 'life cycle analysis' of hybrid vehicles when I was at uni. That takes into account a lot of things the manufacturers won't mention- sourcing materials, the proccesses used to get these, how far the materials travel to get to the factory, how far the car is imported and so on.

 

The amount of polluting that goes on to extract the stuff for the batteries etc. is massive. The conclusion was that it was far better to keep an old car on the road than make a new hybrid, even if the old car isn't that efficient on fuel. And that wasn't from Clarkson's biography or the Daily Mail, this was the conclusion of a whole load of academics devoted to being really green!

[lewvw 10]

good comment on the small engined turbos - off boost they're great in terms of economy. Spool up the snail and they give you the extra grunt when required. However, get stuck in traffic with an old VR and you can literally watch the fuel gauge go down. Then again, 4 cylinders sound pathetic no matter how many horses are squeezed out of them.

I dunno about that Honda vtec engines sound pretty good at silly rpm and my mk5 gti was pretty nice with the twintake :) but mostly yeah they sound pantsish.

[Portent 0]

Electric is a long way off being a viable replacement for internal combustion. It's no coincidence piston engines have stubbornly refused to die in peace. There just isn't anything better at the moment!

 

Small 4 cyl turbos with 40+ cruise MPG is the immediate future..... and you'll see a switch from diesel back to petrol again ;)

 

Agree with this. In the mk6 gti I just got 39mpg on a mixed run today without trying too hard.

[James. 9]

Someday soon the west will all drive and consume battery powered everything. And guess who holds the keys to the honeypot ?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

And yet most of joe public swallow the line about their occupation and covert control of this piece of the world being for the greater good. Yeah, and the invasion of Kuwait and subsequent management of internal restructuring was because they cared.

 

I'll step down from the soap box before the Shermans use it as a drill platform.

[bristolbaron 10]

i live in a terraced house with no driveway or garage. how will i ever buy an electric car which needs power i cant supply?

[Wullie 1]

i live in a terraced house with no driveway or garage. how will i ever buy an electric car which needs power i cant supply?

 

Possible niche market, The half mile long extenson lead.

[James. 9]

Possible niche market, The half mile long extenson lead.

 

Either that or wire it into the street lights.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Possible niche market, The half mile long extenson lead.

 

By which time your lovely 240V will have dropped to about 100V :D

[Jim 2]

i live in a terraced house with no driveway or garage. how will i ever buy an electric car which needs power i cant supply?

 

Everyone says the same sort of thing - the logistics of putting in infrastructure for petrol cars must have been similarly daunting back before the automobile became mainstream. I don't see why electric charging points at home and work wouldn't become "the norm" in the future - you park up, swipe a card or something so it knows who to charge.. and away you go.

[bristolbaron 10]

you think there will be a charging point at every parking space on every road?

or we'll all be expected to queue for one at the end of the road?

or go to an electric petrol station and wait for a couple of hours?

 

im not buying it, electric in its current form is not the future..

[Jim 2]

It really depends on what everyone settles on as the future transport option. If it is electric then I don't see that there is any other alternative than to have charging points everywhere! :)

 

That and they're insistent that the technology will improve in terms of the speed of charging, the range and so forth... so limited range will become less of an issue.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

you think there will be a charging point at every parking space on every road?

or we'll all be expected to queue for one at the end of the road?

or go to an electric petrol station and wait for a couple of hours?

 

im not buying it, electric in its current form is not the future..

 

Yup. The infrastructure changes required to accomodate this will be massive.

 

Petrol stations are comparitively easy to throw up. The fuel is brought to them by tankers and there are plenty of brownfield sites along every A road and Motorway to build one on.

 

Threading millions of wires to charging points across the country is a far bigger challenge and I predict vandalism, electricity theft and stupid chav toss pots electrocuting themselves.....mind you.... that's not such a bad thing.

 

Plus the whole notion of plugging your car into the mains already seems so old fashioned and clunky years before it's even viable!!

[Jim 2]

I quite like the thought of them having some kind of induction loop / wireless charging system. You park your car in a space and it starts to charge.. and it somehow, wirelessly, gets the ID for your car so it knows how to bill you back.

 

I dunno... at the end of the day a solution will eventually have to be found as oil is going to run out one day. And it's scary to think that, for many of us (and assuming we live to ripe old ages) it will be in our lifetimes.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah I was thinking about car parks with 'charging mats' under each space, but thought it was too stupid / far fetched to even mention, so I'm glad you did :D

 

I don't really buy the fuel shortages Jim. Sure it will run out eventually, but not as quickly as the doom mongers will have us believe. I'm sure your parents remember as well as mine do the 1970s 'fuel crisis'? We've not seen anything like that since. So where did all the fuel suddenly come from that kept us going in the 80s, 90s, 00s ?

 

And what do engine makers know that we don't? Engines are becoming more and more powerful all the time and still being produced with gusto, such as the humungous container ship engines and bigger aero engines for example. Car engines have merely lost a couple of cylinders to please Brussels, but they're still pushing for higher and higher hp, which requires fuel. If fuel REALLY was in short supply, a much much bigger drive for electric would be in place than the current token efforts.

[yacobwood 0]

I was at a services the other day and saw two spaces (yes, two) which had pads on the floor for charging. I can only imagine this is like wireless charging. But running it through in my uneducated brain, isn’t wireless less efficient, and how much charge can you possibly gain by popping into a services for a poo and a burger?? I can understand it would be a good idea though if every car parking space in the UK had one, but again that comes back to manufacturing costs.

 

I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned hydrogen cars yet. I don’t follow this subject much so don’t beat me with sticks if I’m talking crap, but aren’t they uber green. Exhaust gasses are just water??

 

*Note to self, refresh page before writing reply :)