CCGB Membership Fee Discussion Now Here: http://www.corradoclub.org/

[vornwend 0]

Not sure where best to post this but as many CCGB members are on here it seems as good a place as any

 

The recent Sprinter mag has reference to a proposal to increase the annual fee from £10 to £15. This will be voted on at the AGM in April

 

My views on this are;

 

A) The fee is still quite small but a 50% increase may discourage some. I'm not sure how many members we have but looks to be around 200? many already question the value from the £10 fee (not me by the way!) but nevertheless they do, so an increase is not going to attract those people - in fact we may trigger a downward spiral - fee up, members down, fee up, members down etc etc.

B) The accounts are still very healthy - with >£6,000 in the bank and whilst there was an overspend of £1,500 last year I don't think that means we have to react quite so quickly - what drove the loss - was it one off or part of a trend?

C) The purpose of the annual fee and the reserves is to pay for recurrent expenditure not to to build up a surplus! Most not for profit associations are encouraged to get their balances down not carry them forward from year to year.

D) There is mention of increasing postage costs - is it time then to make the Sprinter electronic only - would save a few hundred pounds a year?

 

My vote would therefore be to keep it at £10 for now and review each year, especially whilst we still have such healthy reserves.

Edited December 23, 2012 by CazzaVR

[Supercharged 2]

Wasn't there some one off spending in the last year like membership cards etc?

 

That might explain the loss but with £6k still on the balance sheet there is no way IMO you can justify a 50% rise in fees unless members are getting more for it.

 

There are fewer of these cars on the road now, last thing you want to do is discourage potential new members.

[captainredeye 0]

I for one don't mind the extra cost, but feel there must be ways to keep costs down and having the sprinter sent by email would be one of them although having a nice printed book sent post is a nice touch.

What makes it hard to comment on this is that a lot of us don't know where the money is spent exactly and honestly I'm not to fussed on knowing, what I'm getting at is maybe if we identified areas that the club struggles with then maybe other members could pitch in to help over come these shortfalls.

There is already a dedicated bunch running the club in there spare time and I'm sure others wouldn't begrudge helping out, I think the current management really just needs to communicate with the rest of us.

 

I have yet to receive my copy of the sprinter so if what I have said is covered in there already then that is why.

[Tempest 0]

Seems I'm the first committee member to perhaps offer some clarification:

 

The £10 membership fee was announced a few years ago as a reduced fee to eat into the surplus the club was holding in its accounts back then. The membership fee was £15 at that point of time. Hence it was to be expected that at one point in the future the fee would have to go back to its original level, if not follow a trend observed with other clubs, due to increasing costs for doing the things a club does, to increase beyond the original level (that's called inflation). The club has now kept the discounted membership fee of £10 for several years to sufficiently eat into its reserves, and yes, it is a trend, I am afraid to say, not just one-off expenditures.

 

What precisely club funds are spent on is revealed at each AGM and in the subsequent minutes, that are made available to all members shortly after the AGM.

 

This current year those that attended the national day at Brooklands will remember that their membership fee in essence had been fully refunded by the club having paid for the opportunity to park on the banking (for which there was a charge by Brookland of £10 per car). The club has done similar "full/part refunds" by paying towards certain costs that would otherwise be incurred by members attending a national days in the past. This was all done as a means of offering more value to members, encouraging them to attend the national day (which worked very well) and generally to reduce the surplus in the club accounts.

 

We have now reached a stage where we feel that it is time to call an end to the discounted membership fee structure, for the reason quoted in the Sprinter, i.e. that in 3 years or less the club in essence would have no funds left. With the current membership fee level the club is at present not self-funding.

 

Looking at ditching a paper-based Sprinter in an attempt to reduce expenditure has been discussed at numerous AGMs in the past but each time a majority of members voted in favour of keeping a paper-based Sprinter.

 

The topic of increasing the membership level back to what it was has first been discussed at the AGM this year, but it was then decided to leave the decision till the next AGM to allow ample time to collect members' feedback and present the facts, such as: The club at present would not be self-funding.

 

Tempest

Edited December 19, 2012 by Tempest

[timthetinyhorse 0]

Im riffraff if the current balance is around the 6k mark and it is a not for profit organisation i cant see the value in return for my 50% extra payment (if it was introduced)

 

I could understand if there were financial issues rendering the club in difficulties but at current this would appear to not be the case, I think a yearly review of the matter is certainly required however a 50% increase is very very high.

 

Just my 2p and it would be very interesting to see the opinions of others

 

Posted before i saw the above.

Edited December 19, 2012 by timthetinyhorse

[Portent 0]

I'm happy to pay the proposed membership fee of £15. It's still small considering the paper based Sprinter and the club stands through the year. Although there is a surplus currently but it's on a downward trend and I'd prefer not to have the club run on a shoestring.

[timthetinyhorse 0]

Im riffraff if the current balance is around the 6k mark and it is a not for profit organisation i cant see the value in return for my 50% extra payment (if it was introduced)

 

I could understand if there were financial issues rendering the club in difficulties but at current this would appear to not be the case, I think a yearly review of the matter is certainly required however a 50% increase is very very high.

 

Just my 2p and it would be very interesting to see the opinions of others

[Supercharged 2]

I suppose we should remember that the fee was always £15 but we reduced it to £10 when membership numbers started to drop to attract new members.

 

Whilst most of the long term members would probably happily go back to paying £15, many people that have joined recently will find it quite a hike as above.

 

Whilst we're still in a recession and the bank balance is still high (and has been for the last 5 or so years) then I think it should be left as is for now.

[Billzeebub 1]

I am another more than happy to see the membership fee increased back to the £15 level. A small price to pay to avoid the Club descending to the level of some others, or disappearing altogether. Just factoring in the potential discounts on Insurance and Parts makes it mor than worth it for me, then Club stands and the excellent Sprinter etc..

 

..may be an idea to send out some Flyers/Leaflets to Club Members with the Sprinter to place on Corrado that we come across on our daily rounds? Even if it just provides one new member per year?!

[Jim 1]

Always a tough one when you're on the committee but I like to think I can remain pretty impartial here, just looking at it in black and white.

 

It may seem that we have a very healthy bank balance (and indeed we do) but you have to bear in mind it was significantly higher just a few years ago - and as Steve says we reduced the fee from £15 to £10. This was done to erode some of that balance out a bit which we've now done.

 

In addition to this we've done more 'expensive' events for the club to host (like the trip to Brooklands this year for the National Day - which cost, I believe, more than the membership cost for each member that went for the parking on the banking.. and any club member was welcome to come to that!) whilst simultaneously looking for ways in which we can save money where it doesn't need to be wasted (smaller room for the AGM, for example).

 

I'm fairly indifferent at this point as to whether the fee goes up in the coming year. Personally I'd be willing to let it run for another year and then see where we stand.

 

And honestly we want to hear what club members have to say. I'm all ears for well reasoned points and opinions.

[vornwend 0]

I'm probably one of those members who could be persuaded to pay £15 but I still don't think its necessary with £6K in the bank.

 

If there are c200 members and they pay another £5 then you get £1000 more every year. Does that balance the books on an annual basis? if so that suggests an annual deficit in a normal year of c£1000. Therefore it will take c6 years to deplete the bank balance if we stick with the existing fee and do nothing to reduce costs. Even if these estimates are 100% out then we have enough to hold off on an increase for 3 years. Therefore I don't think we need to have a change in the fee until the balances are below say £2,000.

 

I would only support the increase if there was an agreed plan to spend most of the £6,000 over the next year or so

[guildmage 11]

I'm a fairly new member. So I always paid only £10. If it's going up by £5 so be it. I spend thousands of pounds every year to keep my car running (repairs, parts, insurance, petrol). Membership fee of £10 or £15 is nothing in comparison to these costs and that's just once a year payment.

 

Every now and then Sprinter magazine shows up at my mailbox, every year I do get a new membership card (which seriously looks ace! - haven't seen any other membership cards that look so good). Occasionally we get club branded stuff (air fresheners, tax disc holders) - so after all it's money well spent...

 

I would sign myself to keep Sprinter magazine in paper form at all cost (even if membership fee will go up) - we like to collect it, don't we? I bet most of our homes are filled with Corrado related stuff anyway, paper based Sprinter is just a nice touch. If you make it email-based it will loose all it's magic :)

[Jim 1]

I spoke to another club at the Classic Car Show with a similar membership count to ours (single make & model) who had actually just axed the paper version of their magazine due to lack of content, costs, etc.

 

I would dearly like for us to keep our magazine afloat but it's very hard getting content together when we're a single make / model and a limited membership base.. I felt pretty awkward when I went over to the Skoda Club and saw their A4 magazine. But when I read it, content wise had all the same sorts of stuff as we have in ours but purely the sheer range of cars at their disposal (including old and new stuff) meant they always had road tests on, and plenty of technical issues across the different models to discuss / document.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Jim

[Wendy 0]

I think everyone who comments should turn up to the AGM and see where the costs are spent.

 

Also what other clubs are only charging £10.00, none to my knowledge.

 

With the Sprinter costs alone, the Club would be no more within 2 - 3 years of my understanding.

 

Why leave something until the Club is practically running on empty to address this, poor business sense in my view.

 

Costs need to go up now, I would have put them up to £20.00 per annum, not £15.00.

 

No - one seemed to mind so much when the costs went down.........................

[Supercharged 2]

If we ever go paperless with the Sprinter I'm selling up and buying a Skoda.

[Yandards 0]

Yes we have 6k in the club bank at the moment.

 

However I will be raising the issue of getting a larger gazebo complete with club logo at the agm, a proper one of those of a decent size that will last is around the 1500 pound Mark, the flags etc only last around 3 years before they start to fray and are quite expensive to replace.

 

So you can see where big expenditure kicks in, the normal running costs of the club should be covered by the membership fees, so sprinter, mailing, insurance, website costs should be run at cost neutral not at a loss.

 

As for 15 quid being expensive, yes it is when money is tight for everyone but another fiver might get you 4 litres of petrol...

[KIPVW 0]

Wendy has a very valid point in the business sense of the topic, if left to drop too far it could be quite a bad move ans the club then unable to rise above a certain depletion of finances due to having no funds left. Indeed bad business sense.

 

Club GTI dropped their Rabbit magazine to go online only and membership plumeted.

 

I feel the paper copy of the sprinter mag is absolutely vital for the clubs future as without it the club loses a bit part of it's identity.

 

I appreciate £5 is a fair increase but i also think with the rising costs of fuel and general groceries and other things like postage costs it's still a bargain.

 

A happy meal is nearly a fiver now :lol:

[Supercharged 2]

 

As for 15 quid being expensive, yes it is when money is tight for everyone but another fiver might get you 4 litres of petrol...

 

Apparently most of the outgoing are posting stuff up to you in Scotlandshire...

 

I vote we all pay a fiver and you pay £3,627 pa

[Hofmiester 10]

Guys.....it's a fiver, one beer these days

[davidwort 0]

FFS, 15 quid is like less than a hundred miles petrol in a Corrado, or about 4 pints, and given the amount of time and effort a lot of people have put into organising events and the sprinter over the years I've no beef with putting the subs back to where they were more than 10 years ago...

Please don't make me read the sprinter 'Kindle edition' either :)

 

---------- Post added at 2:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 2:21 PM ----------

 

...

 

A happy meal is nearly a fiver now :lol:

 

Imagine, opening a happy meal and finding a herpa corrado in a little plastic packet... sweet!

[vornwend 0]

Wendy, When I looked at the last years accounts I see the Sprinter costs around £800 on average so we have enough in the bank to fund almost 8 years production costs of that. The AGM costs around £1,100 per year

 

The point here is not that £15 is too high (its cheap!) but that its ridiculous to have £6,000 just sat in a bank account doing nothing (last year we earned not one single penny of interest on it)

 

We are no where near running on empty

 

My business logic is keep the fee low to encourage as many new members as possible and retain existing ones, spend the £6,000 on things that hopefully re-enforce the attractiveness of membership over the next 2 or 3 years and up the fee only when the annual costs exceed the income and balances.

 

It seems to me that membership has been falling. 2 or 3 years ago income was about 25% higher than is now being reported. In that situation it makes very poor business sense to put prices up because people will vote with their feet. In any case the club is not a business its a not for profit club!

 

At the end of the day this is not a savings club and there is no point in carrying forward these huge sums of money from one year to the next. Yes they've gone down which in a sense is good but they have a long way to go before we need to out fee up

 

For anyone who wants to see in detail where the money is spent there is a downloadable file on the CCGB website.

 

I hope none of the committee think this discussion is in any way a criticism of them because its absolutely not. The club would not be here at all if it were not for them!

 

I think everyone who comments should turn up to the AGM and see where the costs are spent.

 

Also what other clubs are only charging £10.00, none to my knowledge.

 

With the Sprinter costs alone, the Club would be no more within 2 - 3 years of my understanding.

 

Why leave something until the Club is practically running on empty to address this, poor business sense in my view.

 

Costs need to go up now, I would have put them up to £20.00 per annum, not £15.00.

 

No - one seemed to mind so much when the costs went down.........................

[Supercharged 2]

We're not making any interest on £6k!!???? :shock:

[Jim 1]

Well we can't risk putting that money into any kind of investments obviously as it's not our money to do with as we want.. and presumably as the account needs to be handled like a business account, we can't put it into an ISA or anything like that either. Even then the amount of interest on 6k would be a pittance.

[Tempest 0]

For reference:

 

TIPEC = The Independent Porsche Enthusiasts Club, have £30k in the bank, no-one complained about that at the last AGM I attended, subs are £50 for 2 years, and that's their discounted rate. The club only has as many members as we have (around the 400 mark or so), and biy, are they jealous of how well we in the Corrado Club are doing, given we only cater for a single make, single model. They do spend a little bit more on their club mag, in A4, but content is available more easily because they cater for all Porsche models. Their accounts were rushed through at their AGM, indeed leaving me asking where the money exactly was spent, but the books balanced, so I wasn't going to complain saying that the Corrado Club are a lot better in the accounts explanation department :lol:

 

Just for reference from a similarly sized club.

 

If we ever go paperless with the Sprinter I'm selling up and buying a Skoda.

Get rid of your iPad, too, then :lol:

 

Tempest

[Supercharged 2]

^ Business accounts don't pay but clubs should be able to use the same accounts that charities use (not for profit organisations) - some are instant access and usually pay around 2.5% which isn't much but could potentially cover postage costs of a mailout etc

 

---------- Post added at 2:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 2:41 PM ----------

 

 

Get rid of your iPad, too, then :lol:

 

Tempest

 

It's an iPad One Eric... feels really old now!

Edited December 19, 2012 by Supercharged