Dodgy Windscreen Seal

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

The windscreen seal has come adrift on the passenger side of the roof section. There's no sign of ingress on the headlining but I've had soggy carpets front & rear on that side of the car after heavy rain, and I suspect it's getting in under/ behind the seal, running across inside the roof and down the A pillar. I'll be able to check that out more closely shortly when I take the headlining off and tackle a moonroof swap but in the meantime I really need to sort out the seal pdq. I've tried levering it back in but that didn't work; it's as if the seal has stretched and is too big.

 

I'm wondering if I can get a quick temporary fix using gutter and roof sealant or whether it would be a problem to get off again when having a new windscreen and seal fitted. It's very sticky thick, black, waterproof masticky stuff and is usually intended to stay on permanently when applied. I used it years ago to fix a leaking sunroof in a hurry and it worked a treat. The car disappeared on the back of a pykie lowloader before I had chance to find out how whether the stuff comes off again. If anyone has any ideas or experience on this issue I'd be grateful to hear.

 

I assume I can't just fit a new seal on its own, tho' I'd be delighted to be corrected on that if I've got it wrong.

 

Can anybody help?

[Portent 0]

Silicone sealant? It acts like glue, is waterproof, but just peels away quite easily when dry if you want to remove it.

[emu 0]

buy sikaflex, look on ebay, less than tenner and works the best

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

yo,imo leave it alone, check the heater blower seal in the scuttle tray and the door seal + the door card membrane, the window seal doesnt actualy keep water out of the car , its a bonded screen and the adhesive which holds the screen down is what keeps it wind and water tight the actual seal is there for appearance.

 

heres a shot of my mate applying the adhesive to my new screen ready for fitting , i had just finished the rust repair and respray

 

Edited December 19, 2012 by VW_OwneR_85

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

Thanks guys - contributions appreciated.

 

From the looks of the second pic the rubber windscreen seal's going on after the glass has been fitted, so I might be in luck and not need a new screen after all. Is that the seal in his hands or a tool of some kind, I can't quite tell? If the seal's just cosmetic, no worries, but are you sure water can't get into the edges of the metal of the roof and find its way to the A pillar? There's flaking rust on my roof edge where the seal first started to come off. I should have sorted it out years ago but it wasn't really noticeable at first and I just kept forgetting about it, tho' it's got suddenly much worse. I also understood it's a known issue that there can be rot at the roof/ A pillar join, which suggests ingress from somewhere.

 

I recently did the Oichan repair on the foliage guard on the intake in the scuttle tray, as I suspected that might be the source of the leak, tho' I've got an SWG scuttle cover, the OEM foamy seal actually looked intact and the heater duct in the passenger footwell was dry when I found the carpet was soaked the first time. I'd been washing the car and liberally firing water across the roof, down the windscreen and over the bonnet, because the hosepipe wasn't long enough to reach the front of the car. There's every good reason the volume of water overwhelmed an otherwise functional seal on the foliage guard on that occasion, although it had constantly rained hard the previous day on a 4 hour journey and the carpets could already have been wet when I washed the car and I just hadn't noticed...

 

I used 3mm rubber sheet bonded to the bottom of the foliage guard. Not a brilliant fit afterwards actually as I think the rubber is too hard and doesn't deform sufficiently as the plastic clip is shut so that the offside sticks up a tad above the metal. That's actually what I got the gutter sealant for in the first place, although I haven't got around to using it and have since been told I should have used butyl strip instead of rubber anyway, so I'm planning a second attempt. Don't know whether my first lot of handiwork's leaky or not as I haven't used the car much since doing it and when I have done it's not rained other than just light drizzle.

 

The second time the carpets got soaked, and I mean soaked, was on a week-end return trip to Cornwall in July when it rained like I have never known it rain before on both legs of the journey. On the way back in a slow-moving queue of traffic on the M25 it rained so hard you couldn't see. I'd never known anything like it. It was so wet on the passenger side when we got home that the passenger side carpet and underlay stuff were sodden and there was standing water on the floor underneath. You could pressdown on the carpet with the edge of your hand and scoop a handfful of water. Took an age to dry off the excess and another to air dry the damp out. I was worried that it would get smelly but got away with that.

 

Door membranes I do need to take a look at and will be re-doing both sides. I was planning to use some thick green plastic moisture barrier I got from a builder's merchants to use in studwork I've rebuilt around a service shaft at home. Should do the trick. I had to buy a complete roll and didn't need much so I've got most of it still left.

 

Door seals are tricky. I was planning to replace them all a while back but they're obsolete from VW. I had a look at some of the suggestions I found from a forum search but wasn't impressed with what little I found. What to do?

 

I gather blocked sunroof drains and rust/ rot where the arch is bonded to the chassis are other sources of ingress. The drains I'll check when I swap the roof, and I'm having some bodywork done soon and will get the arches thoroughly checked then.

 

Just still a bit worried about the windscreen seal and what to do about the door seals...

[fla 9]

with the door membranes, i cut some heavy gauge polyprop sheeting to cover the lower open portion of the door and the small sections above. I did take some pics and i'll post the link to the thread shortly, if thats of any use?

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

with the door membranes, i cut some heavy gauge polyprop sheeting to cover the lower open portion of the door and the small sections above. I did take some pics and i'll post the link to the thread shortly, if thats of any use?

 

Would be very useful, thanks.

[fla 9]

http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?42752-Aqua-blue-pearl-auto-VR-new-wheels-p-21/page8

 

here you go Anton, bottom of p.8 in my gallery thread.

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?42752-Aqua-blue-pearl-auto-VR-new-wheels-p-21/page8

 

here you go Anton, bottom of p.8 in my gallery thread.

 

Thanks Hasan. That's a nice thread. I had a good read through over lunch. You've been working hard on the car. Looks very nice.

 

The door membrane repair is actually at the bottom of page 4, mate, not page 8.

(BTW, you might want look at the title. You say new wheels P.21 but the thread's only 11 pages long so far.....?).

 

What's best to stick the membrane down? What's wrong with flashing tape?

[Critical_Mass 10]

What's best to stick the membrane down?

 

 

Was going to ask the same thing, to look at it appears its silicone type stuff you get in the tubes for the silicone guns. But it stays sticky??

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

yea like i said that seal is there for appearance reasons it doesnt actualy do anything other then fill the gap between the shell and the windscreen to look neat, go ahead and pull yours out and check for rust damage,just dont stretch the rubber as it wont go back in properly if you do, the only way it would be leaking is if there is severe rust damage and waters getting in that way otherwise its a 100% water tight bond around the whole perimeter of the windscreen, or maybe the adhesives failed but i dought that very much, if it is rust damaged you need to have the screen cut out and then rust damage fixed, in which case if i was you i would atleast cut the screen out and clean everything up to save on labour costs,

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

Was going to ask the same thing, to look at it appears its silicone type stuff you get in the tubes for the silicone guns. But it stays sticky??

 

I think it's unlikely to be silicone. It doesn't stick to plastic very well. There are various waterproof tapes you can get from plumbers merchantswhich might work. I'll have a shufty through my BES catalogue.

 

yea like i said that seal is there for appearance reasons it doesnt actualy do anything other then fill the gap between the shell and the windscreen to look neat, go ahead and pull yours out and check for rust damage,just dont stretch the rubber as it wont go back in properly if you do, the only way it would be leaking is if there is severe rust damage and waters getting in that way otherwise its a 100% water tight bond around the whole perimeter of the windscreen, or maybe the adhesives failed but i dought that very much, if it is rust damaged you need to have the screen cut out and then rust damage fixed, in which case if i was you i would atleast cut the screen out and clean everything up to save on labour costs,

 

Thanks for that. I'll certainly take the seal off and have a good look. The existing seal is streched already, which is why it doesn't fit, so I'll get a replacement from VW, assuming they're not obsolete. The car's going to the body shop soon to have a wing and bonnet repair and repaint anyway, after some twat dropped my steel garage door on the front of the car, so if the roof needs a repair job I'll whip the screen off and clean everything up before I go and get that done at the same time. Coincidentally, I refurbed my piano wire garotte only the other day so I could use that to cut through the adhesive rather than kicking the screen off from inside the car, which might break it...

 

I doubt the roof rust is actually serious enough to have let so much rain in, thinking about it, so I'd better get it together to deal with the other likely causes. On the way down to Cornwall after persistent, heavy rain it got very humid in the car, so maybe the foliage guard seal was the culprit after all, or maybe a contributing factor if there'smore than one source.

 

So here's my rainwater sealing list:-

 

1. Re-do foliage guard seal around scuttle air intake using butyl strip (and gutter sealant);

2. Fit new membranes to both doors;

3. Check & clear sunroof drains when fitting moonroof;

4. Check arch bonding to chassis & repair as necessary;

5. Find out what do about door seals.

 

Hopefully, when done the car will be nice and dry.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Anton Sobriquet

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

the windscreens a b1tch to cut out, i would invest in this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trident-Knife-Type-Windscreen-Removal-Kit-/190302478355?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2c4ee96013 but yea wire works aswell, kicking it out from the inside isnt an option, the adhesive is very very strong, it simply wont fall off or peel off, on the older mk2 style screens where the seal is what keeps it in place that might be an option there but not here. you can compare the adhesive to panel bonding adhesive , it realy is that strong

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WINDSCREEN-FITTING-CUTTING-OUT-KNIFE-18-INCH-FOR-CUTTING-OUT-BELOW-DASHBOARD-/110881650713?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Vehicle_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item19d10fb819

[fla 9]

i have some seal on a roll left over from some roofing work we did some years back. Basically looks like a reel of thin blutac which you can unroll and stick on to the door whatever the profile. Then you simply stick the membrane on top. From Selco or other builders depot, cant quite remember. Its not as sticky as the black stuff there but still very good and of course wont dry up. I'm planning (among the 1000 other plans!) to make some screw-in panels for the bottom of the doors, just not exactly sure how to do this...

[Critical_Mass 10]

I think it's unlikely to be silicone. It doesn't stick to plastic very well. There are various waterproof tapes you can get from plumbers merchantswhich might work. I'll have a shufty through my BES catalogue.

 

Yes i know its not silicone, i was just trying to compare it to something. What actually is it???

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

Arrived in Blackpool belatedly for Christmas after a miserable drive up the A14/M6/M55 in on and off rain and diabolical traffic. Don't know if the carpet was wet on the passenger side on arrival - far too tired to be arsed to look - but it was dry when we left home. Left car out overnight in heavy rain and carpet found soaked this morning.

 

Carpet was completely dry on driver's side but very wet in floor well and section next to door on the passenger side. It was dry under the dash and on the tunnel side of the well and the heater duct was dry. Maybe my foliage guard seal on the scuttle intake repair has worked. Water seems to be entering at the bottom of door in the middle and towards the front. End of dash where the door shuts onto it was wet and dripping a bit when I opened the door, too, although it hadn't rained all morning. I also inspected the lower part of the door membrane by prising the door card off a bit, and seemed intact and the back of the lower section of the door card was dry. So it looks like I at least need a new door seal - the one that fits to the body. Obsolete now but €109.95 from ARZ.

 

Took out dash undertray, which was dry, lower A pillar plastic trim, plastic moulding on sill and plastic trim inside windscreen/above door with grab handle. No sign of wetness in lower part of A pillar, but the plastic trim inside windscreen/above door was wet on the inside where it fits at the top of the screen, indicating water penetration through the screen adhesive in the top corner. I also found the original scorpion alarm control box sitting unconnected on top of the dash undertray.

 

Whoever fitted the windscreen was incompetent - very untidy job. Took rubber windscreen seal off and suspect it's not a VW part. It's in a single piece and there's a channel in it, though there's nothing in the roof to fit into the channel, which seems odd. Tried to take a pic of it in section but the camera's faulty. I found the remains of some kind of black mastic sealant under the seal, as if the gap between the screen and roof was filled with it and the seal was then pushed on over it. The sealant seems to be what prevented the rubber seal from fitting tightly, although, as I said, I think it's the wrong seal so maybe that's why the mastic was used. If anyone has a pic of the proper VW rubber seal in section, please post it.

 

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I found this pic on Vortex, posted by VW_OwneR_85 (hope he doesn't mind me reproducing it here) in a thread about the windscreen rubber seal. You can clearly see what he means about the windscreen and adhesive providing all the weather-proofing and the rubber seal being purely cosmetic.

 

I cleaned off as much of the old mastic as I could. The exposed part of the recessed lip of the roof that the screen fits onto under the mastic was filthy, full of muck and a fair bit rusty. I thought about putting some gutter seal in before replacing the rubber seal, since there's obviously a leak, but I trial fitted the seal first and found it fitted much, much better without the mastic, so I've left it like that for now. Hopefully, it will be more rainproof than it was when it was hanging off.

 

I'm thinking I'll need to get the screen off, clean out all the adhesive and remaining mastic so I can deal with the rust on the roof lip and repaint it. Since the recessed lip won't be visible with the seal in place, as long as I don't damage the paint on the main part of the roof, I can use a brush touch up, and avoid a trip to a body shop. I'll then refit the screen and a new seal. That'll all have to wait until I'm back home and have the use of my garage.

 

Tomorrow, I'll risk opening the sunroof (broken guide cable) to check the drains, clear them if I can and take the centre console out to remove the carpet and underlay stuff and dry it out. I'll leave it in the boot until I've got the cabin waterproof, which should help to identify where water is getting in.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Anton Sobriquet

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

Had a closer look under the outer windscreen seal in better light and it's bad news. There's a lot of rust to deal with on the metal the screen bonds to, so it's defo windscreen out and possibly some welding required.

 

Didn't bother to remove the centre console but I got the felt underlay out from the floor section, which was dripping wet. Left it hanging over the bath to drain overnight and then put it on a radiator to dry. The footwell section of felt looks tricky to remove without taking the dash away and was wet only right at the floor end anyway, so I left it in with a wire hanger under it to let some air get to it. Carpet was only slightly damp by the tunnel after being left rolled back for a few days. Arch bonding looks fine from inside the car.

 

Drove back home Boxing Day with the dried out felt, lower dash and various plastics I'd removed in the boot and the carpet rolled back against the tunnel. It rained quite heavily nearly all the way, so it was easy to source the leaks. Door seals and membranes appear intact - no penetration there at all. Slight leak through the windscreen in the top corner and a big leak from above the footwell looks like it's from the air intake in the scuttle, unless the drainage from the back corner of the scuttle is somehow getting in. What puzzles me is that I've got an SWG cover on the scuttle so rain should drain away to the sides and not get in; the fit's not perfect but quite tight. On inspection under the cover, it was wet but not excessively, tho' maybe because the rain had already got into the car LOL. I'll be putting plastic bags around the ECU and Schrick controller to be on the safe side. SWMBO did a sterling job with a kitchen roll mopping up as we went.

 

I'm trying to source a small sheet of butyl so I can cut a single piece to form the seal for the foliage guard. Once that's done and, hopefully, working effectively, I'll get a better idea.

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

doesnt sound good, but yea your right aslong as you keep the work to with in the seal area you dont need a bodyshop to paint anything as its all hidden, best thing to do would be to cut out the screen and clean up the affected area , dry it all out and go from there,even if you cant find anybody to weld a peice in, worst case scenario is neatley cut the rott out with a dremel and cutting disc, so its all gone and then fill it with fibre glass filler and then shape it with a sanding block with 80grit paper so it retains original shape, paint and re install screen, you would have stopped the rust and fixed a leak and nobody would be none the wiser ,

 

p.s if you do want to remove the screen take measuremnets of its position also height before you cut it out, so when you come to fit it back in you know exaclty where it sits, also any bare metal thats been cleaned up use epoxy primer,

Edited December 30, 2012 by VW_OwneR_85

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

Good point about it all being hidden by adhesive and the windscreen seal. Thanks for that.

 

What about an epoxy putty like Loctite 3471 for added strength to repair the metal rather than fibre glass filler, which might just break out if the screen needs to be cut out again later? It's designed for repairing corrosion damage. Suppose it all depends on how bad it is, really, when I get the screen out. Just ordered some suction clamps, which I need anyway to fit a shower tray, and that Draper tool you pointed me to on eBay for that purpose. Can't say I'm looking forward to it much.

 

By the looks of the screen and the bodged up outer seal, I'd hazard a guess at a DIY job by the previous owner. Might have a word with my insurers and see if I can get a screen put back in professionally. Would hate to c0ck it up and have to start again...

[VW_OwneR_85 2]

i guess it all depends on how its corroded , that stuff just seems like a metal filler for small imperfections/cracks for indsutrial use , i think you might have a hard time building it up and shapeing it, it would work though, http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/fullproduct-list-loctite-4995.htm?iname=Loctite+3471&countryCode=uke&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=productfinder&redDotUID=1000000ICJQ#a

 

lol could just go down this road , although its not an invisble repair ,http://www.gmh-torana.com.au/forums/topic/49202-an-inspired-rust-repair/ ,

[KIPVW 0]

Get it welded up as the strength of the A pillars will be compromised if you use a filler, A bit of a job to get done but if you get a screen out and able to re-use it you are a good man.

 

I had mine taken out to get the metal work done on my Nugget and decided to claim for a new screen in the end to save all the hassle of it going wrong and not sealing right and thought why go to all this trouble to fit the old one back in again.

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

i guess it all depends on how its corroded , that stuff just seems like a metal filler for small imperfections/cracks for indsutrial use , i think you might have a hard time building it up and shapeing it, it would work though, http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/fullproduct-list-loctite-4995.htm?iname=Loctite+3471&countryCode=uke&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=productfinder&redDotUID=1000000ICJQ#a ,

 

 

There's a fair few Loctite compounds to choose from, so if it comes to it I'll have a word with their tech support. At the death I'll just get it welded.

 

lol could just go down this road , although its not an invisble repair ,http://www.gmh-torana.com.au/forums/topic/49202-an-inspired-rust-repair/ ,

 

LOL Bolt-on extras. Might give it a try for 'that engineered look'...

Edited December 31, 2012 by Anton Sobriquet

[robrado974 1]

Pillars are still available from vw , £60.00 each if i remember . As kip says if you get it out you are lucky , mine broke because of the amount of gunk used to stick the screen in ,as the pillars were shot .

[Anton Sobriquet 0]

Get it welded up as the strength of the A pillars will be compromised if you use a filler, A bit of a job to get done but if you get a screen out and able to re-use it you are a good man.

 

I had mine taken out to get the metal work done on my Nugget and decided to claim for a new screen in the end to save all the hassle of it going wrong and not sealing right and thought why go to all this trouble to fit the old one back in again.

 

I've seen it done two-handed with garotte wire. The screen survived intact to be fitted in a different car. How hard can it be?

 

I'm inclined to get a new screen, tho', and agree, it'll be enough hassle as it is and best done for the 90 quid excess on the insurance.

[KIPVW 0]

When you watch a pro do it you'll probably change your way of thinking though. Tis a pain of a job and really best left to the pro's.