Close shave - hub nut sheared off.

[aclwalker 3]

Had a close shave tonight. My passenger side hub nut has sheared off, with part of the CV joint axle with it.

 

Thankfully the wheel hasn't come off and there's no other damage but I've had to abandon the car for the night.

 

I replaced this CV joint a number of years back, but I've never been able to get wheel bearings to last any length of time on that side (did the other side too and had no issues there). Now I guess I have an explanation. I reckon there's been a crack in the axle part, preventing me from getting enough torque on the nut. Now it has finally failed.

 

Has anyone used http://www.jandrcvjoints.co.uk? I see that they're selling a whole new driveshaft for £32 (£27 if you go to their Ebay shop)! That seems incredibly cheap.

 

Also, anyone got any advice on getting the car moved? Towing is out as the wheel is about to come off. I'm thinking it'll need to be a low loader or something. Not sure what this will cost to take it, say, 5 miles to my parents' house.

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Edit: BTW, it's a VR6...

[kerrly 0]

Christ that must have been scary!!

 

Have a look on ebay as there are usually people advertising car collection. As a rough guide I paid £40 to have a car moved 12miles so it shouldn't be too expensive for you. It's still a lot cheaper than if you try towing it and the wheel comes off causing even more damage.

 

Best of luck!

[davidwort 0]

That's the second one we've heard go recently, the last was a euro car parts one, some of these pattern joints seem to have very dubious quality steel.

[aclwalker 3]

kerrly, thanks for that. I'll have a look.

 

davidwort, it was a GKN CV joint I fitted. I overhauled both driveshafts, new inner and outer joints, all GKN. I never overtorqued them either. I've had no problems with the driver's side, but have replaced the wheel bearing twice at the passenger side since that, over maybe a 4 or 5 year period. I guess that joint has been faulty since day one and has progressed until tonight's failure.

 

I'm thinking just how close I came to losing a wheel, on the motorway!

[Jim Bowen 1]

Worries me as i replaced both mine in december, so nearly a year ago. I did buy the VW stuff from dealers, just hope i fitted them properly.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Did you replace the hub? VW recommend changing the hubs when doing wheel bearings on some models, for this and other reasons. I can't remember if it applied to the VR6 but I replaced them when I did mine. I also used GKN CVs and put turbo torque through them for over 5 years with no problems what so ever, so try not to panic people :D

[aclwalker 3]

Yeah, I replaced the hubs too. I think this CV must have been faulty. I did both sides and have had no problems with the driver's side. The passenger side has gone through 2 wheel bearings in a few years since. In fact it had killed a 3rd one there too, but now I have rather more to deal with in addition!

 

Any views on these complete driveshaft replacements from the likes of J&R?

 

http://www.jandrcvjoints.co.uk/vw-corrado-2-9vr6-driveshaft-new-near-side-92-96/

[Supercharged 2]

That drive shaft seems way too cheap - I reckon i'd rather fit a second hand genuine part to be honest...

[eugopnosaj 0]

http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?t=82112 Check my thread out, mine went doing around 70mph! In the end i had to replace the whole wheel set up, hub, bearing, cv joint, all for the oem quality parts from GSF, not cheap!

[aclwalker 3]

That's me fixed everything. In the end I went for a new outer CV joint (GKN from GSF - about £75) rather than a possibly dodgy cheap driveshaft. It's the same part number as was fitted before (I still had the old box from the previous one).

 

I've attached a photo of the old one...

[aclwalker 3]

eugopnosaj, that's scary! I'm suspicious of your 6 point nut though. I think it should always be 12 point for the the VR6? I think others said that on your thread anyway...

[eugopnosaj 0]

Yeah, someone said the early vrs had 6 sided nuts but like you I went with the gkn oem equivalent one in the end with the 12 sided nut. Worth the extra £ for piece of mind.

[Jim 1]

The only thing I'm suspicious of with those is the 12 sided hub nut that GKN supply is all metal. The genuine VW one has a plastic/nylon inner seal. I ended up refitting using the VW ones which I'd bought seperately (not expecting the CV joint to come with its own nut) but would be interested to know why the VW nuts differ from the aftermarket ones.

[Jim Bowen 1]

I think it all comes back to this plus suspension revision that happened, am not sure my VW nuts came with nylon inserts

[Supercharged 2]

I guess the Nyloc is there as they lowered the torque setting from 265Nm to 50Nm - the 6 side not was a lock-nut

[aclwalker 3]

Jim I think the GKN nut does have an insert; it's just that it's a metallic colour rather than obvious white plastic.

 

The 6 point nuts are those oval shaped ones which pinch the bolt, so still locknuts.

[vw rule 19]

Hello there,

 

sorry to hear about your CV Joint,

the main thing is your ok and second your car is as well.

 

I've had in the past a hub N/S/F same as yours,

where the old wheel bearing was really easy to press out,

and after looking at the hub in detail,

the inside of the hub was slightly multi coloured (orange / purple)

looked as though the outer casing of the bearing had been spinning as well as the centre of the bearing,

so used some bearing lock (like thread lock but much stronger) just to be on the safe side,

anyway the new wheel bearing was again easy like the old one to press out / in,

where as the O/S/F one was a lot harder to press out / in, which was a bit strange.

 

So after a few mins to let the bearing lock set,

this was applied to the outer wall of the wheel bearing,

so as to prevent it from slipping / spinning against the inner wall of the hub.

Then fitted both the large retaining circlips,

in front and behind the N/S/F bearing.

Boxed it all up with a new hub nut and torqued it up and it's been alright ever since, that was over 4 years ago,

no funny noises or rumbling.

But the strange thing is it did make a slight rumble from the N/S/F before but not all the time,

so I'm guessing my old bearing was completely spinning in the hub not just the centre of the bearing that should.

 

 

My point to this ACLWALKER is,

was there anything that didn't look right before,

when you replaced the CV joint back a long ?

was there any signs of the bearing spinning like mine was ?

 

You didn't hammer the new wheel bearings in did you,

you did use a hydraulic press ?

Because if you hammer one in it'll damage it big time.

 

Did the hub nut screw on ok or was it cross threaded or over tightened,

because if it was it may still tighten up and even torque up via the torque wrench,

but the hub nut may not quite be on the hub face where it should be,

so allowing the CV joint to move slightly in and out just,

but only under load when driving the car, like when cornering or pulling away from a stand still,

these are the extreme pressures that these CV joints are under,

so if it's under tightened / over tightened or a faulty joint it was really just a matter of time until it would give way.

 

It does look as though the metal / threads on the CV Joint have stretched looking at your attached photo,

which to me could be down to a duff joint or over tightening,

but if you did over tighten the nut, normally that'll round off first as it's weaker metal compared to the joint,

so like I say I'd bet the old joint is a duff one made of weak metal.

 

Steel when it's made has to go through a heating process of extreme temperatures to stop it from becoming brittle,

because if not it'll just be of plain cast iron which doesn't have the flexibility of good steel.

Normally drive shafts and other parts including the CV joints that are under extreme load are made,

or should be made of good quality steel, meaning they should be able to flex and twist to a certain extant.

So the heating process may not of bean done correctly, or your CV joint is from a weak bach of poor steel.

 

Plus another thing to think about is that once the CV joint has been pushed all the way into the hub,

it can't really move as it's inter locked into the splines, so the hub nut just retains it's correct position with in the hub,

so unless the nut was cross threaded, or over tightened, or was only just lose,

or if the joint it's self was totally duff from day one, it shouldn't really fail at all.

 

Some hub nuts have a blue or black nylon liner covering in the threads on the outer edge of the nut,

others can have a aluminum lining again in the threads on the outer edge,

this is designed to bite in to the CV joint threads and so not allowing the nut to move,

with out the assistance of a socket / ratchet to screw it up,

plus this type of locking nut should only ever be used the once,

if you do have to reuse one then use a hammer and lightly hammer the outer edge,

to re-push the nylon liner inwards to make it re-bite on the CV joint thread again,

also you could use some lock tight (thread lock)

But like I say you are only meant to use this type of nut once.

 

The other hub nuts that are used on other vehicles are like on some of the Fords and Vauxhalls,

where there's a single hex castle hub nut,

which allows a large split pin to pass through the castle nut head,

plus the CV joint end completely locking the hub nut in place.

 

Hope you get it all sorted.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Si