Help wanted - VR6 issue with topping up coolant after popping a jubilee clip

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

Hi All

 

i have read lots on the cooling guide but cant find anything that really fits what i had last night - any help or advice would be appreciated :)

 

FYI its 95 VR6 which had a top end rebuild at stealth about 10 -12K miles ago in nov 2014, which included full set of roose hoses, jubilee clips from roose.

 

on sunday, for a yet unknown reason, the VR decided to pop the feed hose (the horizontal one) into the aux water pump & dumped a load of coolant outside the gf's. it was only a short journey & car was not up to temp when the coolant light began flashing. about 1 mile later it was outside the gf's & upon opening the bonnet i could see the coolant gushing out from said hose.

 

once cooled down i tried, in vain, to get the hose back on & jubilee tight - it just wouldnt hold & hose would slide off with a bit of pulling. i couldnt seem to get the jubilee under the body of the aux water pump so it was far enough back on the pipe & there didnt seem to be a flange on the feed hose

 

so, i ordered 2 constant tension clips from VW. they arrived yesterday & i was able to get the hose seated ok (i think anyway as i couldnt pull the hose back off with some pulling). i decided to also replace the clip on the return end of aux water pump just in case

 

with new clips in place i then followed the coolant top up procedure as described on this forum (which i checked twice)

 

however i didnt know how much coolant i had lost so i guessed & put about 2.5 litres in

 

all was going ok except i did notice (pretty much straight away) that coolant was feeding back into the expansion tank & as such it was filling it up.

 

top hose got warm, bottom was still cold.....dash temp hit about 70 & bottom hose started to warm. a bit of massaging of bottom hose & i could see small burps in the expansion tank.

 

but the level in the tank kept rising - such that before dash temp hit around 90 & before fans would kick in i had a little volcano of bubbling coolant in the expansion tank & then flowing over it & out of the escape bit in it - oh dear!

 

i shut the engine off, let it cool for a minute & then checked expansion tank - level had gone down a little & almost back at the min/max marker

 

as the engine was almost at the point fans would kick in i started it again & within a minute i had coolant pouring out of the expansion tank

 

i wondered if i had over filled the coolant & just put way to much back in so i let it flow out for a minute or 2 but then switched it off again as still not quite at fan temp & coolant everywhere

 

once it had cooled a little i check the expansion tank & it was empty

 

thus my question to you knowledgeable people is - have i been a numpty & put way too much coolant in & should simply try it gain tonight but only put a little in before starting the engine & then add more if it drops quickly? or is it a possibility of it doing this due to a problem elsewhere or over pressurising?

 

IIRC i had a leak down test done by Vince & it was ok

 

other observations that may be relevant....heater matrix ok (replaced by stealth in 2014), no leaks from hoses with the new clips, no visible leaks elsewhere, no crusty pink on aux water pump or expansion tank, radiator was replaced about 4 years ago & looks fine, no exhaust smell in expansion tank, nothing looking very untoward in expansion tank, no messy mayo type gunk on oil filler cap

 

thanks in advance

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

no thoughts or comments anyone?

 

im hoping to have another look at it after i leave work at 16.30

[Jim Bowen 1]

I'd start with it cold and fill header tank to the normal level, run engine with cap off for a bit, when the water level starts to rise as it warms put the cap back on. Then maybe go for a short drive, let it cool off and check the level again.

 

That aux pump hose can be a bit of a pain to fit, i've had mine come off before.

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

I'd start with it cold and fill header tank to the normal level, run engine with cap off for a bit, when the water level starts to rise as it warms put the cap back on. Then maybe go for a short drive, let it cool off and check the level again.

 

That aux pump hose can be a bit of a pain to fit, i've had mine come off before.

 

thanks Jim

 

last night i was doing the procedure id read on here, sean82 i think....

 

remove header tank cap, fill to level, start engine, let it warm to 70 ish, check bottom hose to confirm stat is opening ok, let it run until fans kick & then switch off, cool down, check level. job done

 

only mine spat the coolant everywhere before the fans could kick in

 

will i be ok to put the cap back on as it is warming & the level rising?

 

i guess if it the system is over filled the excess would go out the header escape route? thoughi had hoped that bit last night lol

 

a pain indeed it was Jim! very difficult getting the clip far back enough towards the body of the pump as on of the screws areas holding the 2 halves together is in the way. the clip tool i had made it much easier than a jubilee though!! think i may gradually replace them all back to constant tension ones & wish id not gone for the jubilee's

[Jim Bowen 1]

I think running it until the rads kick in with no cap on the header tank isn't a great idea tbh

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

I think running it until the rads kick in with no cap on the header tank isn't a great idea tbh

 

ok cool thanks jim

 

will give it a go & tonight i will stop pouring coolant top up as soon as it is at the level - whereas yesterday i put a bit more in which didnt raise the level & then a bit more, still no raise so another tad lol

 

i have used the procedure i noted on the valver with success when i hooked up the new matrix

 

really appreciate you taking the time to reply Jim, thank you!

[seanl82 23]

Gents, this is the procedure I've always used and been ok, although as the water is nearing 100 degrees and boiling (as its not under pressure with the cap removed), it will start bubbling up. The fans should kick in just before this has happened though (95 degrees stage 1 iirc?).

Goldfinger, I'd imagine you cleared any air locks the first time round tbh mate. The level will only drop back down a little if you'd had any air locks in there or it was hot to begin with, otherwise it would remain relatively constant after cool down if you had no air in the system.

 

Hope this helps and sorry for late reply, I've had no internet!.

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

Gents, this is the procedure I've always used and been ok, although as the water is nearing 100 degrees and boiling (as its not under pressure with the cap removed), it will start bubbling up. The fans should kick in just before this has happened though (95 degrees stage 1 iirc?).

Goldfinger, I'd imagine you cleared any air locks the first time round tbh mate. The level will only drop back down a little if you'd had any air locks in there or it was hot to begin with, otherwise it would remain relatively constant after cool down if you had no air in the system.

 

Hope this helps and sorry for late reply, I've had no internet!.

 

no danger sean, appreciate your input.

 

it was only yesterday i double checked your post about the procedure. as i say when it was the valver it worked fine.

 

dash gauge didnt have chance to get to 90 as it was already bubbling up & over not far after 70 ish IIRC

 

good point you make about air locks, as this is at the front of my mind, & hopefuly as the stat opened ok last night it will have removed any air in the system & then as the coolant level dropped below the bottom of the header tank i may get away with a top up

 

i may try & give it another go when i get to the gf's to pick up the puppy

 

thanks sean & Jim :)

[Harrier 1]

I have personally never had any issues with filling or bleeding Vr engines on any I have owned or worked on,

just run up to temp topping up as it circulates , maybe I have just been lucky ?!

 

It sounds like possibly circulation problems to me, maybe thermostat jammed shut or water pump impellers broken or corroded.

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

I have personally never had any issues with filling or bleeding Vr engines on any I have owned or worked on,

just run up to temp topping up as it circulates , maybe I have just been lucky ?!

 

It sounds like possibly circulation problems to me, maybe thermostat jammed shut or water pump impellers broken or corroded.

 

thermostat seems to open ok as top hose got warm whilst bottom was cold, then around the dash gauge hitting 70 the bottom hose began to heat up

 

i think i had a new water pump when it had the work done at stealth - best check

 

1 thin i did notice which i though odd & not mentioned is that as it was warming up, with the coolant at the level in the header, i did get a build up of foamy type stuff.

 

EDIT - checked & yes definitely has a new primary & aux water pump when had head done at stealth 2 years ago

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

i am starting to think more that i just put way too much coolant back in & the system shot it out when it was warming up as it couldnt cope with the volume of liquid

[maff 10]

Fingers crossed nothing's pressuring your coolant system and popping that hose off but sounds like an air lock to me though the hose popping off is weird, isn't the expansion tank designed to let coolant out the top if there's too much pressure?

 

If you've had a rebuild at stealth I'd give him a call or just drop it into him, they'll sort it

Edited November 3, 2016 by maff

[Jim Bowen 1]

Jubilee clips do seem to slacken off after a while. I found myself keep tightening them up i eventually over tightened one and damaged the hose, so only really use the tension clamps now.

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

morning all - school run today so a bit late on here

 

thanks again for the replys chaps :)

 

i tackled it with some caution last night when i went to pick the puppy up from the gf's

 

checked header tank - nothing in there

poured a little coolant in & could then see fluid in the tank

little by little, & checking each time with a torch as it was dark, i added coolant until it hit the minimum line

left the header tank cap off & started it up

no visible leaks from either of the hoses with the new tension clips

let it run for a minute, checked header tank, level had gone down a touch so carefully added more until back at minimum line

put header tank cap on

spent the next 5-10 minutes checking for any leaks

not a drop of anything from the suspect areas & no coolant ending up coming out of the header tank escape hole thingy

checked that the stat was opening as it should, bottom hose started to get warm & then hot shortly after dash temp hit 70

all seemed fine :)

once i knew the stat was ok as well i turned her off with the plan to check coolant level tonight after work, top up if required & then give it a test drive on the short journey home from the gf's

 

thus fingers crossed all is ok & it was a jubilee clip issue

 

i wonder if Vince has still got my old set of tension clips on his spares shelf - wish id got him to use those, might message him just in case lol

 

for anyone that is thinking of investing in a set of Roose motorsport hose i would recommend NOT getting their jubilee clips & use your OE tension clips :)

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

got the VR home on saturday & all seemed ok...well, with the coolant anyway