Oil Leak & Timing Chains

[_Matt_ 26]

Hi all,

 

I've had a leak for a while that has now got quite a bit worse - 1/2 litre of oil leaked over the last 200 miles.

 

The oil is all on the timing chain side of the engine and covers from about half way down the timing chain casing to the sump and bell housing, plus splatters over the draft-shaft. Recently I fixed a leaking oil pressure sensor but this is all new oil now as I wiped that lot off at the time.

 

I took a picture of the leak from the rear - view is from top down and looks moist with oil about halfway down, in line with the exhaust manifold level.

 

Oil is also escaping from the front, behind the thermostat but I wasn't able to get a clear picture.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95753[/ATTACH]

 

When I changed the coil pack earlier this year I noticed oil on the tips of the threads too.

 

The rocker cover gasket/top of the engine appear largely dry.

 

This to me is pointing to some sort of failed seal on the timing chain cover. What do you guys think? I have no history of the chains being replaced and have been saving the pennies for this job (but unfortunately I can't do it right now). I'm assuming around £1k for this job. I have a mobile VAG mechanic but unsure whether to give this job over to him as he hasn't seen many VR6 engines and hasn't done a chain on one these before....Stealth is an hour away so is an option.

 

The car has done 151k with FSH but has had little use in the last 7 years with only around 10k being covered in that time. I've been trying to use the car more but I guess things have started to perish over the last few years.

 

I've also spotted a coolant leak under the rad too. Joys.

Edited January 19, 2019 by pfnsht

[Keyo 47]

Looking more like £1600 for parts and laboour for new seals chains guides etc. My new Rado chains done by the last owner and that was how much it cost him on receipt at a VW specialist /independent september 2018.I would not use a mobile mechanic for a large job like this personally. Are you sure its not coming from the oil sump or not the oil cooler , also oil filter housing check pressure switches and figure of 8 gasket. Also a fair bit of oil over time can leak out of the breather hose attached to the PCV vavle and intake as the engines are getting old.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Keyo

[_Matt_ 26]

Cheers Keyo. Just done the pressure switches (as they were leaking too!). The oil cooler looked fine a couple of months ago... but you never know.

 

It’s had a new sump but the oil is leaking higher up.

 

Fun times. May as well have a full top end refurb, head gasket plus some 268 cams if doing the chains.

[Keyo 47]

Run your finger under the Manifold breather hose and see if there is any oil , its not a huge lot of oil but over time can lead to an oily engine bay.

[fla 9]

Might be the main crank seal which is behind the gearbox. You can get a seal.conditioner by Forte which does a lot to stop seal leaks by allowing them to swell and create a better seal. Clran it all up first and then see where you're getting your oil trails from.

[Keyo 47]

Would crank seal be commonly changed when changing the timing belt because I believe the gearbox has to be removed.

[_Matt_ 26]

Cheers guys. The crank seal probably should be changed when having chains done, along with the clutch. The crank seal sits behind the flywheel so would be a little bit more effort but well worth doing...

 

I've spent a couple of hours looking around and stripping bits off. Some pictures and laughable text annotations... I think I have a couple of leaks;

 

1) a light leak around the bottom right of the rocker cover (but this could just be overflow from poor oil filling). See pics, moist oil also spreads slight underneath inlet manifold behind the electrical connector).

 

2) I believe the Crank Seal is probably leaking too. Oil above gearbox, behind thermostat (could that be head gasket too?) and quite a bit of oil around sump and gear box join. Oil has spread over as far as the power steering pump

 

Pics

 

Sump/Gearbox

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95756[/ATTACH]

 

PS Pump

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95759[/ATTACH]

 

Upper timing chain cover/behind coil pack (3 pics at diff angles..)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95762[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95765[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95768[/ATTACH]

 

Back of engine in-line with exhaust manifold

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95771[/ATTACH]

 

Ahhh, what next. Well I'll take Hasan's advice and clean it up with degreaser and put some Forte stop leaks in for now. I do not feel confident enough to take all this apart on my drive (wish I had a garage!). I'll get my VAG mechanic to take a look but if doing crank then it's quite a list of jobs that will follow whilst it gets stripped down - clutch and chains for sure, concerned it could be head gasket too. There is dark colour that has appeared at bottom of the (new) header tank too:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95774[/ATTACH]

 

It would probably be easier and cheaper to pop 1.8t in there if it turns into a couple of grands worth of work.

[Keyo 47]

I wouldnt get to overwhelmed by it old cars always leak a bit of oil in the engine bay. If you want to be proactive you could have a compression test for the head gasket which wouldnt cost much. I have attached a receipt to give you an idea of what would be replaced if the timing chains were done. Will also be really good for the cars value.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]95777[/ATTACH]

[_Matt_ 26]

Cheers Keyo. I was hoping to have a cheaper year this year having spent £3,750 on it last year!

[dr_mat 0]

I was going to say exactly this. Doesn't look too bad to me.. FWIW they also burn a lot sporadically at this sort of age so judge it on how badly you want it done. That said the timing chains is a risk anytime beyond 80-100k miles so if it's never been done I would definitely consider it. Also, don't know what Stealth are charging for this job these days but I'd bet they charge a lot less than that, just because they can do them more quickly with the probably ridiculous number of them they've done over the years.

Edited January 20, 2019 by dr_mat

[_Matt_ 26]

I suppose it could be burning oil too, it's just I've never seen the puffs of blue and have had my wife follow while I drive. If sporadic I would miss it though.

 

I might have got the 1/2 litre thing wrong but will keep a proper log now.

[Keyo 47]

Def one of those jobs that is worth getting a fixed price and calling experienced VW specialist. The last owner had it done down south it would prob be 20/30 % cheaper in the Midalnds.

[_Matt_ 26]

I've had a indicative quote from Stealth for clutch, chains, head refurb and gasket for 1650 inc VAT. It's going to take a few months to pull that cash together but at least I'll know I'll have a solid engine for a good few years.

 

I thought about it last night and even if I could save a couple of hundred with my mobile vag mechanic I think I'd rather it went to Stealth as they know what they're doing and have a great rep.

 

... when my mechanic did the cambelt on my Seat Exeo his locking tool snapped and it took him 3 days to strip it down and get it sorted. Bad luck on him and he kept to his quote, he does know what he's doing but I'd rather not go through that with Corrado + if it turns out other bits are needed or even little thing like bolts at least Stealth will have the knowledge and materials within in easy reach.

[Keyo 47]

That does sound a fair price with clutch included what is the head refurb include ?

Edited January 21, 2019 by Keyo

[dr_mat 0]

Do note that the car may still burn oil after all that work due to bore wear. Sorry there is no magic bullet to a new Corrado.. there are always other bits to do!

[Keyo 47]

Do note that the car may still burn oil after all that work due to bore wear. Sorry there is no magic bullet to a new Corrado.. there are always other bits to do!

 

 

Would it not be worth getting the bores inspected for ovulation and scoring if carrying out a head rebuild , mine was drinking about half a litre ever 1k but ok now that I have changed the oil sump and gasket , last owner had the car that low he smashed the bottom of the sump on a speed bump. One thing I have noticed is there is a fair bit of blowback oil coming out of bottom of oil breather hose where it joins the intake , even though I have a new pcv valve and breather hose, could be the valve seals prehaps. Or could be a side effect of having a Shrick VGI inlet manifold.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Keyo

[_Matt_ 26]

I'll let Stealth inspect it for bore wear, I'm sure they'll advise what's best. The chains, clutch and head refurb is a package they do. I believe they send the head off to be refurbed - skim, inspect for cracks, steam, guides, seals. From reading around they've done quite a lot of them!

 

One Q - if I was burning oil due to bores - wouldn't I see blue smoke from the exhaust regularly?I can't say it doesn't but I've never seen blue smoke and I've had the wife follow to inspect on a few occasions with full acceleration 2nd gear to redline test too. Nothing comes out.

 

Bottom end rebuild would be +2.5k if it is bust though.

[Keyo 47]

I'll let Stealth inspect it for bore wear, I'm sure they'll advise what's best. The chains, clutch and head refurb is a package they do. I believe they send the head off to be refurbed - skim, inspect for cracks, steam, guides, seals. From reading around they've done quite a lot of them!

 

One Q - if I was burning oil due to bores - wouldn't I see blue smoke from the exhaust regularly?I can't say it doesn't but I've never seen blue smoke and I've had the wife follow to inspect on a few occasions with full acceleration 2nd gear to redline test too. Nothing comes out.

 

Bottom end rebuild would be +2.5k if it is bust though.

 

 

 

I had a Porsche 911 996 a few years back and it started drinking oil and sooty exhaust tip at 67k on the clock, full history in mint condition , had the cylinders boroscoped and hey presto slight scored cylinders, op said might be ok for a couple of years but will need a 10k engine rebuild at some point , this is very common in a 996 and 997 , Porsche get away with murder with early flat six water cooled blocks. The most reliable engine I have ever have owned is my R129 Merc M113 V8 before they merged with Chrysler.

 

If you have really bad bore scoring or ovulation you might well hear piston slap.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Keyo

[_Matt_ 26]

Yeah I’ve seen the issue on the 996’s plus the IMS bearing. That and the headlights put me off the only 911 I could ever afford!! Shame the air cooled stuff is so expensive.

 

No strange noises on mine so fingers crossed. It is a quiet engine with no tappet noise when cold either. It has had a service every year though so probs help keep it fresh. It was also completely standard so I’m hoping it’s had an easy life (ha!). I’ve installed a B12 kit but otherwise it’s staying standard.

Edited January 21, 2019 by pfnsht

[Keyo 47]

Yeah the scary thing is all 911 manafuctured from 1998 - 2009 are prone to several catastrophic engine failures that lead to a 10k engine rebuild , Turbo and Gt variants do not apply as a differnet engine block, it is very common none of this only happens to 5 percent and we are talking low mileage cars here. I would love a 964 could of got a white one for 12k back in 2003 with navy interior, talking of leaky engines bays these just leak everywhere your engine looks mint compared to one.

 

One good way to keep your engine sweet is not going into high revs in till the oil has warmed up.

[_Matt_ 26]

That 964 would have epic and worth a bit today. Those prices are insane. Porsche have been a bit naughty with those engines. BMW had something with cylinder liners but they did the right thing and replaced them.

 

I’ve always been mechanically sympathetic, the corrado is easier with the oil temp gauge but I keep it below 3k until it reaches 94-96 degrees. Else on other cars I wait at least 10 miles (and even then my daily tdi still hasn’t got its coolant up to temp let alone I assume oil)

[Keyo 47]

Yeah Porsche are ****bags , think the boxters and caymans suffered from the same problems to. Must admit I do still have a softspot for the 996 such a great car to drive . The good thing about Rados is they are pretty cheap for parts compared to other sportier brands and pretty rare cars these days to be fair.

[_Matt_ 26]

Yea I do try and tell myself parts are reasonable compared to other marques. The only thing that annoys me about the corrado is obsolete parts and having to pay a fortune for a working 25 year old part.

 

Front wings for example don’t exist but I’d happily pay 300 quid for a new pair (mine are fine fortunately). ABS parts - I had to strip down my abs travel sensor, re solder abs silicon back up. These sorts of things are usually available on other marques for a price. ABS pumps and parts aren’t available but some can be repaired by BBA Remen (I have this fault and 2 working and 1 broken pump here ready for a fix). Headlights and fog lights - tabs break, reflective material goes but again can’t source new ones.

[dr_mat 0]

I'll let Stealth inspect it for bore wear, I'm sure they'll advise what's best. The chains, clutch and head refurb is a package they do. I believe they send the head off to be refurbed - skim, inspect for cracks, steam, guides, seals. From reading around they've done quite a lot of them!

 

One Q - if I was burning oil due to bores - wouldn't I see blue smoke from the exhaust regularly?I can't say it doesn't but I've never seen blue smoke and I've had the wife follow to inspect on a few occasions with full acceleration 2nd gear to redline test too. Nothing comes out.

 

Bottom end rebuild would be +2.5k if it is bust though.

 

You would likely not see blue smoke unless you're really keen eyed tbh. If it was belching enough to be that obvious you would be using a hell of a lot more than a litre per 1k miles.

 

Yes, bottom end rebuild usually means you prefer to buy a recon engine and hand yours back in part ex.. Or, like most people, you just live with it and buy more oil .. lol

[_Matt_ 26]

ahhh I see thanks Mat, could well be an issue down there then, though I hope not. Good info.

 

Almost don't want to get it fixed for fear of opening a whole can of worms.