Bruno 4 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) During the clean up of the front end, changing parts which should have been routine, I ended up with the tyres fouling the spring pan. These items were changed: 1. Refurbed engine cross member. 2. New Driveshafts (ebay parts from LandR) 3. New Bilstein B4 shocks with OEM springs Kept the original steering rack, bearing carrier but did change all the ball joints in sight for OEM ones. Cleaned up the ARB. All went back on really nicely until I fitted the Speedlines (which had my original spec tyres). Two things stood out immediately as I was torquing up: Whilst still on axle stands the tyres tucked in under the spring pan of the strut, with only 0.5" to spare vertically. When the car was on the ground, the front wheels rubbed the spring pan. Haven't even tried turning the steering wheel! 🤡 I might be losing it, but I could swear that she sits much lower than she should when resting on OEM spec tyres. It seems to me that either the shock absorbers are wrong (not enough distance between the bearing carrier bolts and the base of the spring pan) or the driveshafts are short. It could be both! Both suppliers swear blind that they sent me the right products... IIRC the VR6 shafts are mean to be longer than the others meant for the Corrado but I'm currently leaning towards thinking this is a problem with the B4s. Unfortunately I dont have my original shocks any more. So cannot measure up. Do however still have my original driveshafts, so this weekend intend to take it all off again and measure up. Normally I go about my business restoring the car quietly. This one has surprised me. Researched this to the hilt before I bought the parts. Yet am facing an embarrassing mess. Any one of you guys ever experienced anything like this before? The car is not lowered (not intentionally anyway). The steering rack is original. The only non-OEM parts are the B4 shocks, poly bushes for the struts, the front springs, and the LandR driveshafts. As I see it, even if the springs were wrong, the crucial distances are determined by: The struts. If the pan to base distance is wrong the tyres would foul. The driveshafts. If too short, the tyres would be pulled further under the struts. Ideas? Does any one have an OEM setup and knows the following measurements - or can get to them quickly: From the base of the strut (the very bottom) to the base of the spring pan (where it welds onto the main shaft)? The driveshaft - any side - from the flange on the gearbox to the base of the bearing nut? One or all of these could be out. I need to know who to call and get a replacement part.... Edited June 2, 2021 by Bruno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cressa 44 Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Bruno said: During the clean up of the front end, changing parts which should have been routine, I ended up with the tyres fouling the spring pan. These items were changed: 1. Refurbed engine cross member. 2. New Driveshafts (ebay parts from LandR) 3. New Bilstein B4 shocks with OEM springs Kept the original steering rack, bearing carrier but did change all the ball joints in sight for OEM ones. Cleaned up the ARB. All went back on really nicely until I fitted the Speedlines (which had my original spec tyres). Two things stood out immediately as I was torquing up: Whilst still on axle stands the tyres tucked in under the spring pan of the strut, with only 0.5" to spare vertically. When the car was on the ground, the front wheels rubbed the spring pan. Haven't even tried turning the steering wheel! 🤡 I might be losing it, but I could swear that she sits much lower than she should when resting on OEM spec tyres. It seems to me that either the shock absorbers are wrong (not enough distance between the bearing carrier bolts and the base of the spring pan) or the driveshafts are short. It could be both! Both suppliers swear blind that they sent me the right products... IIRC the VR6 shafts are mean to be longer than the others meant for the Corrado but I'm currently leaning towards thinking this is a problem with the B4s. Unfortunately I dont have my original shocks any more. So cannot measure up. Do however still have my original driveshafts, so this weekend intend to take it all off again and measure up. Normally I go about my business restoring the car quietly. This one has surprised me. Researched this to the hilt before I bought the parts. Yet am facing an embarrassing mess. Any one of you guys ever experienced anything like this before? The car is not lowered (not intentionally anyway). The steering rack is original. The only non-OEM parts are the B4 shocks, poly bushes for the struts, the front springs, and the LandR driveshafts. As I see it, even if the springs were wrong, the crucial distances are determined by: The struts. If the pan to base distance is wrong the tyres would foul. The driveshafts. If too short, the tyres would be pulled further under the struts. Ideas? Does any one have an OEM setup and knows the following measurements - or can get to them quickly: From the base of the strut (the very bottom) to the base of the spring pan (where it welds onto the main shaft)? The driveshaft - any side - from the flange on the gearbox to the base of the bearing nut? One or all of these could be out. I need to know who to call and get a replacement part.... I have a wheel off, so will measure in a bit. Give me an hour Hmmm interesting one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dox 23 Posted June 2, 2021 Compare old to new struts? Measure top hole to spring pan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Matt_ 32 Posted June 2, 2021 Have you got the camber way off when installing the lower shock bolts? These are adjusted to give the correct amount of camber and I can imagine if you have them in full negative camber you're going to be close to the spring pans. I have B8 shocks which i am sure are the same in body to the B4s. Have you changed the wishbones at all VR6 and non VR6 are different (VR6 slightly wider/longer) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 4 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) That looks like 12.5cm to the centre of that bolt from the spring pan base and 20cm to the strut base. I'm at the car in the morning. Will measure up. Thanks @Cressa. @Dox. Unfortunately silly me threw out the old struts before noticing the problem. Not my finest hour. @MJA.! Actually the monotubes are different. Just look the same on the outside. Entirely different structure. However you have a point on the wishbones. I did also change the wishbones t the same time. Just assumed the wishbones from Epytec would be good Querlenker Satz inkl. verstärkte Koppelstangen VW Corrado Golf 3 Vento VR6 GTI 16V | Epytec.de. So, darn, a third variable. I'll have to talk to them. @Cressa. Would you have the time to measure the wishbone distance from the centre of the front bolt to the inside bolt at the bottom of the bearing carrier (there are three there, I'm looking for the length to the base of that ball joint, so the one thats closest to the inside, not the two on the outside, if you get my drift) Edited June 2, 2021 by Bruno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 4 Posted June 2, 2021 @MJA. Looks like the wishbones are the right ones. Still have their packing labels and bags. So back down to the shocks and driveshafts. This site THE Mk2 Golf Definitive Wide Tracking Thread | Club GTI suggests that the Plus axle - which the VR6s have - is 22-24mm wider on each side. Now that distance would be exactly the amount that my tyres are encroaching on the shocks. Will know in the morning. Sorry about the drama guys. Thanks for being there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paddy26 3 Posted June 2, 2021 Have you a lot of negative camber?From this thread the narrow track and wide track have different length driveshafts:https://www.clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/driveshaft-lengths-bare-driveshaft-lengths-wanted.155374/So shorter driveshafts could be pulling the top of the hub in and giving too much camber. Which as MJA said would pull the wheel towards the spring pan.For ride height of VR6 I'm not sure of the official height. It seems to be 630-660mm from ground to wheel arch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 4 Posted June 2, 2021 Thanks will measure tomorrow. Cant really guage camber from just looking at it right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 4 Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) Well, its not the shocks. Thank you Cressa- mine come up with the same measurement. Not the strut bolts (they are OEM, unchanged). It isnt the springs - wheel arch at its highest point is 240mm (not surprisng for new springs). However excessive negative camber is obvious now the car's suspension has settled overnight. I dont think she needs camber bolts because she's never had an accident - I've had her since since new. Not the bearing carriers (also OEM, unchanged). So this points to the wishbones or the driveshafts. Wishbone part numbers match up correctly. Will take the driveshafts off on Tuesday to compare with the original ones. Edited June 3, 2021 by Bruno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philly-R6 0 Posted June 3, 2021 Bruno, Are you sure it doesn't need the camber setting up with the two bolts on the strut/hub? There is plenty of play there when the two bolts are loose. The other thing that tripped me up was the location of the bottom ball joint - there is a bit of adjustment there too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 4 Posted June 6, 2021 (edited) Right - thats three of you pointing to the bolts. Bought some camber adjustment bolts just in case. Will report back when I've stripped it all down again Edited June 6, 2021 by Bruno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cressa 44 Posted June 6, 2021 I had to put camber bolts in mine. Fitted at the top. But can also be fitted at the bottom if needed, with the top ones. Hence vw actualy having made them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Matt_ 32 Posted June 9, 2021 How did you get on Bruno? When I took my strut out for some work i put it back in with too much camber - i've since adjusted by moving the hub and tightening back up the bolts. This pic here you can see too much negactive camber: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 4 Posted June 16, 2021 Well. Thats an interesting point. I've just pulled off the wishbones, driveshafts and track rod ends. All of them match up perfectly with OEM products. Before I took all this off, the car didnt have a problem with camber, or with the wheels fouling. @MJA.I'll PM you. Need to understand what you did.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 4 Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) @CRESSA got the VAG part number for the camber adjusting bolts? Doesn't seem to be in ETKA - for Corrados or MK3s. Still flummoxed by why mine were fine before I changed the bits - and now so off that the wheels rub. Edited June 16, 2021 by Bruno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1xshaunx1 27 Posted June 16, 2021 23 minutes ago, Bruno said: @CRESSA got the VAG part number for the camber adjusting bolts? Doesn't seem to be in ETKA - for Corrados or MK3s. Still flummoxed by why mine were fine before I changed the bits - and now so off that the wheels rub. When it’s all back together, leave the two bolts that attach the hub to bottom of the shock absorber loose. Put the wheel on and you should be able to move the top of the wheel in and out, toward the engine and away a fair bit. Set to where you think best tighten the two bolts up drop it back down and have a look. Repeat until your happy it’s something like Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 4 Posted June 20, 2021 Thank you. Will work on that as soon as the rain stops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1xshaunx1 27 Posted July 10, 2021 Any luck with this yet matey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
