Sealant/adhesive for refitting door seals

[fla 9]

Found a nice swimming pool in the back of my car, passenger side. 

Removed the soaked soundproofing and pillar trim and it looks to be coming from the middle of the inner door seal, then tracking round and running off the door sill. My car is on a slope so it all mainly collects at the back.

Anyway, removed the door seal, pressed the profile a bit tighter and refitted pushing it all the way back. Had a cursory glance today and there's still a small amount collected at the back.

Do you need to use any sealant or soft adhesive for refitting the seals? I'm conscious of not using something that will either attack the paint or that wont permit removal of the seal at a later date.

I've also moved the striker pin inwards slightly to try and help the outer seal a bit more although this now puts more pressure on the lock when opening so I'm looking to move it back to the original position once the leak is sorted.

Thanks 

Hasan

Edited January 10, 2023 by fla

[_Matt_ 26]

The rubber door seals are just push on rather than needing sealant.

Are you sure it is door rubber seals and not something else like blocked sunroof drains or door membranes?

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[1xshaunx1 27]

46 minutes ago, MJA said:

The rubber door seals are just push on rather than needing sealant.

Are you sure it is door rubber seals and not something else like blocked sunroof drains or door membranes?

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I agree, if you can see water on the rubber it’s coming from the door

[fla 9]

I took the pillar trim off and there was water dripping slightly from the inside of the seal, but just in the middle.  The door membranes look intact.  I did clear out the sunroof drains in the summer but recently fitted a new inner panel - maybe that's not seated properly?   Its too rainy for me to try and remove and refit at the moment though!

[_Matt_ 26]

yes horrid weather at the moment. I think it's worth a refit of the door membrane first - are you using butyl tape to stick it on and following the curve around the door? There are some holes for the door card plastic brackets that are supposed to create a watertight seal too. 

[fla 9]

Sorry, should have said the water drips were from the middle of the top edge of the inner door seal

But i think you're right, its good as a preventative measure anyway, so at least that's eliminated

[1xshaunx1 27]

I once bought a door without realising until it was fitted that the top window part was bent outward. When I removed the outer rubber seal and window guide from the door top it was rusted out where the window frame bit joins the main door near the handle and had no Strength to push against the rubber seal, no fixing that, I got another door. 

[_Matt_ 26]

Have you got a pic Hasan? I think I can visualise - top of door and water on the door seal at the top? The only thing is this part would likely get a bit wet when you open the door .

How is the door seal in front of the B pillar? Any bubbly stuff under the seal might have weakened the door also giving a similar problem to Shaun.

Hopefully though the water drops at the top are a red hearing and it's the door membranes - probs best to take the door cards off and leave off whilst the situ is assessed. Other places to look are at the scuttle drain points - perhaps water is accumulating getting into the interior air box. The other thing is to replace the seal around the waterbox - think it's about a tenner from heritage. 

Any work done to the car recently? I've had leaks to contend with in the past when it went to the bodyshop -  my areas were -  poor initial fitting of the windscreen, no door membranes, the plastic bits around the spoiler guides, no sunroof drain tray installed. 

[fla 9]

Great pointers Matt, many thanks.  Should have taken some pics but i'll have a go tomorrow.  

Anyway, refitted the membrane and cleaned up the butyl seal.   Swopped back the old sunroof panel keeping an eye on the clouds!  The metal sunroof panel was wet on the inside although there was a small amount of water on the inner panel.  Like you say it is pointing to an issue with the sunroof drainage.  I've just wiped everything down again to see what happens tomorrow - its been raining again so hopefully should see something.  Or ideally not! I'm also just wondering if today the water was just condensation on the body frame as it evaporated as i've removed the A pillar cover. Most of it had droplets from the middle of the top down towards the dash and a few drops sitting in the LHS dash vent.

Only a very small puddle in the back today - about the size of a 50p piece.

[fla 9]

good point Shaun - i'll check the alignment of the door against the roof line and body

[fla 9]

Some pics from this morning. Paper at the front was wet and you can see where water has tracked round from the top. Some has again dripped onto the vent and speaker pod. 

But the door was totally dry around the edge so perhaps its leaking from somewhere else? Is there something to replace the sunroof 'seal' with? I know its not supposed to be a perfect seal hence the sunroof drains. If i had a proper garage i could remove the headlining completely as well as the sunroof and look at it throughly.

See the moisture on the windscreen (although none around the moisture absorber!)

[_Matt_ 26]

Hmm a headache! There is a lot of moisture occurring on the windscreen which could also be the cause of the water droplets on the dash/vent.

The sunroof seal can be replaced and as you say isn't supposed to be watertight a new seal will let less water past and perhaps prevent sunroof drainage from overloading. It does seem as though water is coming from the roof area so probably a good shout.

In the meantime you could get one of those half covers for the roof if not fancying a full car cover (I dont like car covers myself).



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[fla 9]

good shout on the roof cover - ill definitely look into that! Any suggestions on the roof seal?  Would this be any good:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385038501623?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ghqy_imatbi&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=62a0Nzj5QWe&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[fla 9]

Right, i definitely need a roof cover! Went out in the rain to have a look and its coming from around the top of the windscreen. Great 😡

I'll have to book to screen in to be replaced and resealed i suppose, but in the interim I'll probably pull off the old windscreen trim and replace with a stick-on seal, although not sure if that will stay on any any speed. Obviously it doesn't help if i have to drive in rain. Alternatively it could use some butyl rope on the inside and outside of the screen on top of the sealant. Not sure, but I'll need to think quick!

The trim doesn't provide a seal its just an aesthetic, so i presume the actual sealant inside has somehow failed. Is there any way to remove the trim.piece at the front of the roof panel? It seems to originate about 5cm in from the corner, then track round, pool in a recess in the black seal and then drip into the car when the recess gets full. The pics might make more sense. Btw its rain on the outside as opposed to condensation on the inside, fortunately.. And condensation on the inside of the frame - so perhaps safe to assume that the sunroof is probably not the culprit..

Edited January 11, 2023 by fla

[_Matt_ 26]

That is a shame 😞 Is the car pointing nose down? Water could be collecting at that point on the windcreen if so. Can you try parking it the other way around? 

If going the windscreen route consider getting a bodyshop to do it as it's rust spot where the screen mounts and may as well be in the right place at the right time.

My Mk2 leaked and is now under a cover whilst I finish my barn off so I feel your pain. Mine is the seal and was parked slightly nose down and water collected as it has done for you and pooled into the footwell. Destroyed my immaculate original headling removing it too. I was suprised on mine to see the carpets had never been removed like I have now done along with the sound proofing... I would say you should do the same with the soundproofing if not done already as that stuff even left hanging up in my out house with the boiler is still not dry 4 weeks later.....

 

 

 

 

[fla 9]

sorry to hear that Matt.  I replaced my soundproofing with some MLV and some open and closed cell foam.  Of course the open cell foam got soaked, but thankfully its dried out. My car is pointing nose up, hence running down to the back of the car.

|I've just shoved in loads of newspaper on the side screen edge and along the inner sill but water, being the insidious thing that it is, will certainly find a way in somehow.  In the interim, is there any kind of sealant i could use on the outside in the slot where the outer trim fits in? 

I'll be putting some self adhesive rubber around the window in the meantime until i can book the bodyshop

 

Edit: just seen that the photos dont show the water droplets on the trim at all, just the rain and inside misting, so there's nothing to refer to.  They look clear on my phone though

Edited January 11, 2023 by fla

[fla 9]

looks like the sealant had failed in a particular spot - pulled off the trim and cleaned out the crud and rubbish in the channel.  It seems the windscreen may have been refitted prior to my ownership (some 20 years back) and not too neat at that.  The sealant seems to have separated at a point along the screen hence the entry point for water just by the DAB aerial.  In the interim i've use some black gasket sealant and pressed the trim back into place. Didn't seem to have any water in the car after the rain last night fortunately, just some water condensing.

 

I'll leave it open for a while to ensure its sealed ok and then refit the soundproofing and carpet.  Thanks to everyone for the input.  

I'll be looking to get the screen replaced at some time and will see if there's any rust around the frame that needs welding or other treatment.  That way at least any old sealant will be completely removed

[1xshaunx1 27]

I’ve posted these photos before somewhere but can’t find it.

As you can see when I broke the glass you could just pull the rest away. No bonding going on just rust eating away under the seal and water finding somewhere dry to go.

it’s amazing the damage that might lurk behind a screen that’s had a removal without some proper paint being applied before refitting the screen . The rubber that goes around the screen can hide an awful lot of mischief. Any sign of bubbling under any glass or window seals needs investigating before it gets too much for a cheap scrub and lick of paint to rectify. Leaving it can mean thousands instead of hundreds of well earned Pounds.

[fla 9]

Thats pretty serious Shaun, thanks for posting, great picture, certainly gives a lot of detail.  Did you have new metal welded in?  How did the body shop ensure all the old sealant was removed?

[1xshaunx1 27]

Sharp knife and wire wheel I think. Those pictures are of the old hatch though which was replaced. 

[oneohtwo 8]

Think I may be in a similar position to you, seem to have plenty of moisture in the car at the moment. No big puddles fortunately, but there's always a lot of condensation on the interior of the windscreen and rear window. So much so it had frozen in drips the other day. 

My hunch is that it is the sunroof as it can't be vast quantities of moisture getting in because the carpets aren't soaked (although they do feel a bit damp), but I suppose I will have to start getting trim off.

Have you fixed the issue on yours?

[g0ldf1ng3r 13]

52 minutes ago, oneohtwo said:

Think I may be in a similar position to you, seem to have plenty of moisture in the car at the moment. No big puddles fortunately, but there's always a lot of condensation on the interior of the windscreen and rear window. So much so it had frozen in drips the other day. 

My hunch is that it is the sunroof as it can't be vast quantities of moisture getting in because the carpets aren't soaked (although they do feel a bit damp), but I suppose I will have to start getting trim off.

Have you fixed the issue on yours?

hi m8

do you have any dehumidifiers in there?

before i sold the 16v a few weeks ago i was having to wipe drips off the rear & front windscreen even with 2 dehumidifiers in there - as such it could just be heavy condensation rather water ingress

the 16v is water tight too as id checked sunroof drains & also reskinned the door membranes

[fla 9]

2 hours ago, oneohtwo said:

Think I may be in a similar position to you, seem to have plenty of moisture in the car at the moment. No big puddles fortunately, but there's always a lot of condensation on the interior of the windscreen and rear window. So much so it had frozen in drips the other day. 

My hunch is that it is the sunroof as it can't be vast quantities of moisture getting in because the carpets aren't soaked (although they do feel a bit damp), but I suppose I will have to start getting trim off.

Have you fixed the issue on yours?

Mine was actually a small failure of the windscreen mounting adhesive. Water was dripping in through there about half way down the lhs of the windscreen.

I've sealed it temporarily but am planning to have the screen removed and any rust repaired before refitting

With regards moisture, I've always found the rear window heavily misted in winter in spite of using large moisture absorbers. I think its just because there is a huge amount of glass relative to the size of the car  so it becomes condensation central!

As an alternative to moisture absorbers, try scrunching up some newspaper or using a bucket of cheap rice in the back