VR6 TIMING CHAINS (No noise doesn't mean all's well)

[GB_SEAN 0]

They weren't kidding when they said it was a big job!

 

Started on the 'must be done' job this weekend and have stripped everything off and removed the chains, took best part of 10 hours to get to this stage with one thing or another not wanting to seperate.

 

I had no noise but with 130K on the clock I decided it had to be done. As said before just because there is no noise does not mean that the chains are ok. After finally getting to the chains I found that the upper tensioner had gone through the rivets and the upper guide had snapped! Not to mention loads of scoring to all parts. Glad I caught this in time..

 

Word of warning to those who are thinking of doing the job, be prepared for lots of the plastic parts to crumble like paper due to becoming brittle and expect battered hands!

 

Not very happy with having to ride a mountain bike to work !

 

Will Post some pictures shortly...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Indeedy.... I'm glad someone else has compounded that. It was snubbed when I said a quiet tensioner doesn't necessarily mean all is well. Just too many VR owners in denial I think :wink:

 

Good luck and pics would be useful, cheers.

[Jimbob1970 0]

I certainly didn't snub you Kev....

 

I am now preparing myself for the fact that I will have to get mine done!

I am a complete muppet when it comes to mechanics, so I will have to pay the local VW specialist to do it.

 

My "reasonably priced VR" is now looking a lot more expensive....

 

How much is a new clutch?

May as well do that at the same time....

 

 

:roll:

[chrishill 0]

if theres no noise is it possible to tell if somethings amiss without taking the engine to bits then?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You can inspect the upper tensioner by removing the manifold, rocker cover and side plate. Not as much work as it sounds....a few hours on a Sunday afternoon and good peice of mind!

 

Jimbob, clutch is about £80 so a good time to incorporate that into the chain job!

[GB_SEAN 0]

PHOTOS :

 

Like I said, no noise yet one of the broken pieces from the upper tensioner was just 'floating' about !!

 

And where did those rivets go ??

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep, that's a typical site at that sort of mileage!

 

The rivets and resin crumbs drop down into the sump unfortunately, so you might want to drop the sump and clean that and the oil pick up guaze to be on the safe side. Do a filter and oil change too before you restart her.

[chrishill 0]

I like the 2nd from last picture, very back to the future!

[DEL VR6 0]

well, i dont want to be in denail either. Mines approaching the 100k milestone, and need to bear it mind as the next thing i do. No way i can do this myself tho, so anyone got any recomendations for places around the midlands? How much you think i should expect to pay?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Midlands - Stealth Racing. The whole job is about £700-£800 including a clutch....but many people do the Head/chains/clutch job at £1300. The VR head in some cases, not all, is pretty tired at 100K aswell....especially the rear bank of exhaust valves which run a lot hotter than the front bank.

 

It's worth replacing the upper tensioner and tensioning bolt with MK4 items too. The former is solid polymer and won't break up like the original tensioner.

[GB_SEAN 0]

Too much !! Personally I think that if you have a good set of sockets and spanners you will need a few additional tools like a torgue wrench and some splined sockets and just take your time this engine is nothing more than an inflated puppy. This way it will cut your bill dramatically..

 

I did a bit of research on the net first and bought a Bentley Manual etc.

[DEL VR6 0]

does the chain need setting like a timing belt? I ask this cos someone i know did his own on his cossy and set it wrong ending up breaking all the valves, and costing a small fortune. I genuinely dont mind doing it myself, i just thought it required lots of specialist tools and lifting equipment etc.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

GB_SEAN, agreed, it is a lot....but it's very easy to reassemble the VR6 cams incorrectly, either a tooth out or upside down! I'm sure you'll be OK though. Did you manage to get the cam alignment tool from VW OK?

 

DEL VR6, no. The upper and lower tensioners take care of the preload. It's the intermediate, cam and crank sprockets that all need aligning correctly.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

GB_SEAN, just had a thought.

 

Can you take pics of the cams and other sprockets all aligned correctly when you reassamble the engine? It might help alleviate people's fears as that's the only area you can really go wrong.

 

We can then perhaps sticky this as a rebuild guide.

 

Cheers

[DEL VR6 0]

*scratches his head* i think im gonna speak to a couple of people who are quite competent at this sort of stuff, and see if i can get decent help. I dont think i feel confident tackling this totally on my own just yet. Will keep an eye on this thread in the meantime.

[tonytiger 0]

Didn't PhatVR6 do a quick guide to rebuilding a VR6 a while ago - including timing it up?

[Geo 0]

I did this job over the weekend, once you know what you are doing it is quite a simple job but it's not something you should tackle if you are in any doubt about your ability to do the job correctly.

 

I found this link very useful in getting the timing set up:

 

http://www.corrado-club.ca/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001122;p=

 

If anyone has a link to the guide PhatVR6 did I would like to have a look at it btw....

[GB_SEAN 0]

Kev: I'll keep snapping away until the job is complete and post them here, when I have finished I'll pop them all into my gallery.

 

Here are some more pics with the cams back in and the 2 chains/tensioners reassembled..

 

I work for an MOD Uni so they have a machine shop who kindly made me a cam lock tool.

 

Providing you use the correct camshaft locking tool you cannot get the cams out of alignment as it will only slide into the cams machined grooves providing they are in the correct position.

 

I set the engine to TDC then offset it again by a few degrees to make sure none of the pistons where at the top of the cylinders when I tightened the cams back down which in turn forces the relevant valves down.

 

I then timed the cams with the locking tool as you can see in the 2nd photo and then brought the engine back up to TDC by realigning the 'cornered tooth' with the main bearing end cap joint. (forward facing)

 

Pre align the Intermediate shaft as you need to wrap the chain around the sprocket before bolting the sprocket back on the shaft.

 

This is how I timed my engine. Once both chains where on, i popped on the upper chain cover so I could screw the upper tensioner bolt back in to tension the chains, then I was able to turn the engine over with a large spanner (iron bull!) to make sure no one inside were secretly meeting each other.

 

You'll notice I used the 509E item for the upper tensioner instead of the lame standard Corrado one. This means I have no use for the old tensioner bolt as this better type tensioner needs to be used in conjunction with the 507B tensioner bolt.

[corradokid 0]

This is really worrying me now as i was going to look at a vr6 with 101k on it over the weekend, However i think my corrado owning days are going to be over soon. Who in there right mind pays 5k for a ten year old car which will need over a grand spent on it real soon? Can you imagine the conversation to the seller, yeah its a nice car but I want a grand knocked off due to it needing timing chains done. Cue hysterical laughter.

[tonytiger 0]

I've found the page I was thinking of, but not as much information as I thought:

 

http://the-corrado.net/.archive/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11083

 

It's good to see some photos of this work in progress GB_SEAN, and should be very helpful to plenty people - though I personally have no intention of doing this work myself on my car.

[GB_SEAN 0]

Thing is if you love these cars to bits, you'll want one regardless and once the job is done you can sit back in confidence knowing you have one of the Corrado Daddies that is sorted.

 

I want to be able to cruise around the country this summer hearing the superb engine note with no developing rattles or worries..

[2cc 0]

Feeling very guilty now as I had promised to do a photo write up when I did mine earlier in the year, but been a slack bugger and not authored it yet, sorry guys.

Yes, its a real easy engine to work on, Dennis's link is very useful and tells you what you need to know for the internals but I keep thinking I'll do one anyway cos I discovered (and replaced) all sorts of other stuff along the way when I did mine.

[dr_mat 0]

corradokid, don't panic, they aren't *all* knackered!

Despite all the tales of woe, there's an awful lot of VRs out there with starship enterprise miles and no timing chain work and no destroyed engines. It seems that although the tensioners may wear in many cases, while in situ they don't seem to fully disintegrate - meaning the chains don't slip, oscillate or snap very often. As soon as you take them out of the engine they fall apart, but whilst held in place they seem to do their job, even when well past their best.

But I'll grant you it's better to know that it's a possibility and consider it than to ignore it... :)

[GB_SEAN 0]

That's true, I did mine though because I knew they would need doing as no receipts or paperwork to say that they had ever been changed.

 

I just wanted piece of mind and once done their done.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good work GB_SEAN!!

 

Let me know when you have a full guide and I'll sticky it as a chain replacement thread, which many people will be grateful for!