Corrected timing, now lost 65% power and runs rough ideas?

[juloesG60 0]

After checking my MFA figures boost was low at idle and bit at redline, corrected timing from 22 degrees to 6 degrees to find boost figures at idle are more healthy but car runs bad. No power and supercharger seems to have disapeered. Whats strange is that it was almost fine before timing was changed!

 

Limped the car to Geoff Bloor in Nottingham he rekons cam belt slip or something mechanical effecting timing ne one else had this? Could be nailed cams but engine is not too noisy and before paying for him to take half the engine apart to check everything, belts and cam wise are there any other ideas that it might be? Cant find any boost leaks, possible ISV? Lambda sensor? ne thing like these would they cause this?

 

thanks Jules

[dr_mat 0]

Henny's yer man for a G60 problem, but I would assume that the timing is now wrong, regardless of the thing you measured your 6 degrees from. Don't dismiss the simplest thing first!

[W3RKD 0]

how did you reset the timing ? this definatly sounds like your problem

[juloesG60 0]

Got it set by the local garage, so not sure how many different ways are there? apparently it is now bang on 6 degrees though

[chubbybrown 0]

I had some headwork done ages ago on an old golf,not a g60 I know but after the timing reset it had jumped a tooth,Lets hope its just that and no more cash is outgoing

Roy

[Fat Tony 0]

It shouldnt boost at all at idle? Should it?

 

Have you checked for a boost leak as one of your pipes may have came lose or something when they where working on the car?

[Skimask 0]

You'd better check the static timing first - make sure the crankshaft timing sprocket hasn't moved.

[stevemac 0]

Got it set by the local garage, so not sure how many different ways are there? apparently it is now bang on 6 degrees though

Essentially there's 2 ways of setting the timing - the right way & the wrong way.

 

Did the garage disable the ECU corrective timing mechanism before setting the timing ?

Surprisingly few non-VW specialists are aware of the correct proceedure !! If the ECU corrective timing wasn't disabled when the timing was set - this will be your problem.

 

Get the cambelt checked first though - make sure it hasn't jumped a tooth.

 

 

Just a thought - did they re-connect the blue temp sensor after setting the timing ?? (fits into water hose connection sticking out of the front of the cylinder head)

[flusted 0]

If the cambelt was a tooth out to start with,it would need to be advanced more to run properly.

[juloesG60 0]

Did the garage disable the ECU corrective timing mechanism before setting the timing ?

Surprisingly few non-VW specialists are aware of the correct proceedure !! If the ECU corrective timing wasn't disabled when the timing was set - this will be your problem.

 

Say the ECU corrective timing mechanism wasnt disabled, would it cause this much of a problem? how do you disable it? Not sure about blue temp sensor but will check.

 

The garage seems to think the cambelt or something may have sliped, static timing is bang on though.

 

cheers

[Riley 0]

i think? correct me if wrong guys!

 

the blue temp sensor should be unplugged while setting the timing,so basically your timing may have been ok in the first place.

 

just that the garage may have checked it without unplugging the blue temp sensor.

 

sound possible to anyone?

 

neil.

[h100vw 0]

You need to disconnect the BTS adjust the timing to 6+or-1 degrees at 2-2500 revs. This stops the ECU advancing the timing and proves the BTS and wiring are good. Setting it at tickover isn't the whole story.

 

Reconnect the BTS and rev the engine 3 times allowing the throttle to close each time. Then let the engine idle and adjust if required.

 

To check the map, the timing should advance to between 20-30 degrees plus base setting at 2500 revs.

Job done

 

Gavin

 

Oh yeah, with ref to the mechanical timing being correct. My Passat showed itself to be spot on, except when I stuck a screwdriver down number 1 plug hole it wasn't.

 

I was using the crank pulley as the reference not the flywheel. The woodruff key was gone and the pulley had spun. Not enough to bend anything but the engine wouldn't run.

 

New pulley and it started first flick of the key.

[mondy 0]

Just a warning (and this is only me stating facts) - Geoff Bloor hasn't got the best reputation. For example, took my car there for a rolling road session just to see how much power it had got. The figures were way down and he said he could take a look for me which I declined. So I took it somewhere else that I know is OK and the car magically gained 30-40 bhp!! Read into that what you want.

 

Hope you get your problem sorted OK.

[juloesG60 0]

Ok guys ur helping loads, i rekon seems like either cambelt jumped a bit, or the guy in my local garage didnt set timing properly, keep ur ideas coming cause gonna phone the garage in the morning and mention all your ideas for him to look at - though now little worried bout Geof Bloor! but il let u know how he does! cheers

[juloesG60 0]

What can cause the cambelt to slip?

[Supercharged 2]

Only a loose tensioner really... I'd get him to check/change the crank bolt if I were you...

[G60 Bob 0]

h100vw is the woodruf key on the G60 crank pulley a little raised dot on the pulley itself? I just got a new one to make sure that this slipping isnt happening on mine and before i start taking things apart i just wanted to make sure i got the right pulley?

[Henny 0]

The woodruff key is a semi-circular chunk of steel which fits into a keyway in (groove cut into) the crankshaft. This acts as a locating lug for the crankshafts cam pulley so that it'll only go on one way meaning that the timing mark (the raised dot) can only point the correct way.

 

If the woodruff key had been chewed up then you'll have to replace the key, the pulley and in extreme cases the crankshaft too... :|

 

Things that normally make the cambelt be a tooth out are:

 

1) Someone not putting it on properly ( :oops: never done that, honest guv ;) )

2) Tensioner not done up properly allowing the cam belt to be too slack

3) Cam belt stretching due to being either cheap and nasty, or too old.

4) Frequent BUMP starting of the car (causes a JOLT on the engine which can cause the belt to jump a tooth)

 

Worn pulleys can also be a cause, but I've yet to see that on a VW engine... 8)

[G60 Bob 0]

Cheers Henny; so by the sound of it ive either got the wrong pulley or am i just missing the woodruf key - i.e. it is available seperately from VW? Any idea of part number or cost guys?

[Henny 0]

Bob? I think you've got yourself a little confused... ;)

 

On the crank there's a toothed gear which drives the cam belt. This has a notch in it for the woodruff key which sits in the groove in the crank end and provides the locating for that gear. It's this pulley that's held on by the BIG crank bolt which everyone is replacing at the moment due to them having a nasty (and sometimes expensive!) habbit of snapping off or coming loose... :|

 

Onto the outside of that gear is the pulley which drives the belt for the alternator, waterpump and supercharger. This pulley has 4 bolts to hold it on which aren't equally spaced and so cannot be fitted the wrong way. This pulley has a raised dot on it which is the timing mark.

 

Onto the outside of that pulley, you bolt on the pulley which drives the P/S pump which also has a dirty great big weighted damper on it... 8)

 

Hope that makes slightly more sense now... 8)

 

Just FYI, the woodruff key is about 80p from VAG, the bottom cam belt/crank pulley is about £15, the bottom charger/alternator/waterpump pulley is about £30 and I have no idea how much the P/S pulley and weight is, but it's probably gonna be expensive 'cos the weight is BIG! :roll: :lol:

[G60 Bob 0]

Definately dazed and confused; thanks for the help Henny! Right so i think all i need to do is take the pulley back as i dont need it and buy a woodruf key from VW as i have the DX crank bolt on order from G-Werks and i have the other bits and pieces. Thanks again.

[juloesG60 0]

Iv ordered DX crank bolt part N0401064 which is off a Mk1, which other replacement bolts can you get? and r worth doin?

[stevemac 0]

Iv ordered DX crank bolt part N0401064 which is off a Mk1, which other replacement bolts can you get? and r worth doin?

Make sure you get the DX crankbolt washer too !

[juloesG60 0]

ye got the washer too cheers

[Henny 0]

G60 Bob, if it's eaten the woodruff key you'll need the toothed pulley from the crank which drives the cambelt 'cos the notch that the woodruff key sits in will be damaged.