Timing chains and tensioners question

[Trig 0]

I would contact 'Storm' if you asked them to do the chains and they only did chain, they need to finish the job IMO.

[andy 0]

The fact of the matter is that when you took your car to them it was running ok (the only symptom was a slightle rattle from the chains which they diagnosed), the car ran without fault. Now you have had engine work done by them your car does not run properly, you have a flat spot. They have created your flat spot. They are to blame. They have not done a satisfactory job.

Personally although I think its half a job to only replace the top chains, I wouldn't worry unduly about the bottom chain, they don't break, the tensioners don't wear as a rule etc etc. I don't believe for an instant that the problem you have is anything whatsoever to do with the condition of your bottom chain, not a chance imo.

On one hand I think they owe you something, on the other hand I'd be reluctant to let them near it. Perhaps a refund of some kind would at least offset your costs at Stealth to have the job done properly.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

A leakdown test blasts air into the combustion chamber with the piston on TDC compression stroke (both valves closed). You basically listen to where the air 'leaks' from to determine where the problem lies. Not sure if you can do that to check a HG though.

 

On the chains, take it to Stealth and get them to go through it.... they'll soon tell you what's been changed and what hasn't.

[matth76 0]

Hi guys. Ok I've spoken to the Phirm and they too couldn't believe the bottom chain nor clutch was changed when the gearbox was out. They are going to have a good listen to it this Saturday to ensure there is no rattle what so ever (to at least give me confidence that the top chain and its parts were indeed fitted). They did see my car a month or so ago and were the first to notice the chain rattle. Therefore they should be able to make a good comparison of 'before' and 'after' condition. They too said the flat spot is highly likely to be a sensor fault and not the bottom chain and Stealth said it would not be the bottom chain causing the flat spot either. However until it is hooked up to VAG COM and they can see my car in person the flat spot remains a mystery. Basically IF the Phirm say there is no chain rattle whatsoever then I am going to leave the bottom chain as is. I'm not going to spend £600 if it doesn't need it at this time. I will however be taking my car to Stealth for the rolling road and very possibly a remap.

 

I'm p*ssed off that my clutch wasn't done when the gearbox was out because that is going to cost me when it comes to needing to be done! When that occasion happens I may think about getting the chains looked at by either the Phirm or Stealth (depending on what the extra cost is to gain access to the chains while the gearbox is out). Anyone know approximately?

 

I also spoke to Storm today and they were still adament the bottom chain and its tensioners will never need replacing. They even said they would put it in writing that if the bottom chain or it's parts fail causing an engine failure they will buy and fit a brand new engine (can anyone give guidelines on how they should word it (not too long but including the major points that they should write - as I do lack knowlege in this area!). I am going to be definitely picking this up from them in writing. They did say they would fit the bottom chain and its parts free of labour which was very good of them I will admit. They are yet to get back to me with what the parts will cost - anyone know? However I am not going to go ahead with it mainly because I will have no proof that they have done the work and I could be wasting £200 on parts which aren't being replaced.

 

Anyway hopefully the Phirm have good news for me on Saturday and can tell me the chain rattle has disappeared and can hopefully diagnose what is causing my flat spot. What a bl**dy hassle all of this!

[Roger Blassberg 0]

They did say they would fit the bottom chain and its parts free of labour

In that case, why not get it done, have the clutch replaced at the same time to save that future labour cost, and you are pretty well back to where you thought you should be.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[andy 0]

I'm p*ssed off that my clutch wasn't done when the gearbox was out because that is going to cost me when it comes to needing to be done! When that occasion happens I may think about getting the chains looked at by either the Phirm or Stealth (depending on what the extra cost is to gain access to the chains while the gearbox is out). Anyone know approximately?

Hi Matt, I'm sure you said in another thread that you specifically requested that the clutch wasn't done as part of this work as money was tight at the time. However I appreciate that you may have declined this because you hadn't realised how much duplicate labour would be involved to change it a later date.

The extra labour to change the bottom chain is minimal with the gearbox off, if you are referring to getting the gearbox off to change the clutch then there is virtually no extra labour, the labour in changing the bottom chain IS getting the gearbox and clutch out of the way. If the bottom chain worries you, get it done by storm free of charge, it won't be the root of your current problems but could be a chance to have a new clutch fitted free of charge. Personally I wouldn't bother, the bottom chain should be fine and the clutches last ages. Get your flat spot sorted, then enjoy the car, you've had nothing but grief so far! If, some time in the future your clutch gives out, worry about it then and get the bottom chain done at the same time.

[matth76 0]

Yes you're exactly right. I had no idea that the labour cost would be so high if I wanted the clutch done in the future as it would be a gearbox out job AGAIN. I wasn't told this and they certainly didn't recommend I have it done whereas both the Phirm and Stealth said it should always be done to save money.

 

Anyway I agree with you that I'm going to leave the bottom chain and when the clutch does go I'll get Stealth or the Phirm to do it and if as you say the extra labour (while the gearbox is out doing the clutch) is not much to get access to the bottom chain I'll have that done too.

 

Hopefully the Phirm may give some idea what the flat spot may be due to.

 

By the way in the last couple of days my car has briefly made an odd screech noise (not too loud but audiable) for half a second just after I turn the engine on. Then it disappears. Sometimes doesn't happen. What is that - sounds similar to a fan belt noise but it only lasts for a fraction of a sec.

[matth76 0]

They did say they would fit the bottom chain and its parts free of labour

In that case, why not get it done, have the clutch replaced at the same time to save that future labour cost, and you are pretty well back to where you thought you should be.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

 

Not sure whether I should let them near it or not. If the Phirm say there is still rattle noise I may do that - but part of me would rather either the Phirm or Stealth take it all apart (costing me £600) but will be worth it to know it is all done.

 

Does anyone know what the parts would cost for everything related to the bottom chain?

[PhatVR6 0]

wheneer you take your car into a garage demand to see the old parts they've removed. If they can't show you them, don't pay for the work.

[matth76 0]

I paid them before xmas after they had done the work. Would they still have my old parts? I would have thought they may have thrown them. I wouldn't know if they were from my car or not though.

[matth76 0]

Today I visited The Phirm who were really helpful. They spent a good half hour or longer with me today for free, test driving my car, checking my engine, checking the ecu etc. I really recommend them if you live in the south.

 

The timing chain rattle (faint background raspiness / grinding) is STILL present. Basically it turns out Storm Developments did NOT take out my gearbox at all. All the gearbox nuts/bolts were very dirty and totally untouched. It appears that only my head gasket was done (The Phirm could see new head bolts) and hydraulic tensioner (this could also be seen to be new). Storm may have replaced other parts related to the top chain (such as guide rails) but unless it’s taken apart it can’t be confirmed. But the timing chain noise is still present which could be due to stretched chains.

 

No wonder my initial invoice only said “head gasket and tensioners kit” and no wonder they were very cagey about admitting only the top timing chain was done – even this wasn’t done!! None of my timing chains were replaced! None of the chains can be removed without removing the gearbox. I paid £650 for the head gasket and tensioners only – The Phirm said this was an average price. However I thought I was getting a good deal as Storm said they were going to do all my timing chains and head gasket for £650 – I don’t think so!

 

Unfortunately it wasn't in writing beforehand (not that this is usual practice) that they were doing all my chains so I can't really do much about it other than tell other people on here to avoid them.

 

Anyway I’m putting it down to bad experience and definitely not going back to Storm Developments and I would seriously advise others to stay well clear.

 

The Phirm also said it’s quite common for VR6’s to have small damp patches half way down the driver’s side of the engine block as all head gaskets leak a tiny bit but is normal and a common flaw with mark 3 Golfs’ head gaskets. Essentially it looks like I have paid for a head gasket when it probably didn’t need it.

 

The Phirm also scanned my ecu to try and find out what my flat spot was due to and found no faults. They suspect it is likely due to incorrect timing and a faulty cam sensor going so soon after having had the work done is too coincidental.

 

Enough said.

 

Anyway I’m having all my chains done this time and new tappets too. Does anyone know how much extra work is required to check my head gasket was actually done or was done with a good seal?

 

Cheers guys – hopefully by the end of the month my car should be sorted!

 

ps. I only wish I had read the reviews about Storm on this site before I handed my car over to them!

[andy 0]

I knew there was something highly dodgy about Storm from the first post you made about taking your car there. I had no prior knowledge of them. You've had a very duff experience by the sounds of it. I bet they've taken the head off, put the chain back on a tooth out, charged you for unecessary work and ignored the real issue. Dreadful service. People on here need to be warned. Hope you get it all sorted out soon.

[matth76 0]

Cheers. I hope so too.