help!! changed cams and now ive lost the time

[quicky1980 0]

i have a rado 2.0 16v and ive spent today changing my cams to kr versions. pretty sure i got them lined up properly. so i started to put things back together.

turned the camshaft by hand and felt resistance (as if valve was hitting the cylinder) so i undone the timing belt tensioner and rotated the camshaft round slightly.

felt free so i stuck it all together and turned the ignition.

nowt, just starter motor spinning fast, so i thought maybe my timing was out by 180degrees. again i took timing belt off and rotated the cam by 180degrees. put it together checked it turned free and started her up

this time it started but ran very badly and coughed to a stop withing a few seconds.

my main problem is that now im not sure how to set it up again.

i cant get the pulleys off (bolt heads rounded off by previouse owner) so cant check in the old fashioned way. :(

i heard about the markings on the flywheel, but not sure what they look like, will it also show tdc of the the bottom end.

im at a loss for where to start. please please help.

if anyone is willing to give me their phone number so i can talk to them and sort it out quick would be great. thanks

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Take out the spark plugs and put a long screwdriver down the NO.1 plug hole and turn the engine over slowly until the screw drivers moves up and stops at the top TDC (it will be fine tuning to get it near top dead centre) You should remove the plastic bung from the top of the gearbox(unscrew the plastic bung),you should see something like a V-slot cut into the flywheel and a arrow cast mark on the bell housing of the block,that's TDC.

 

Now for the cams,the front cam pulley will have a mark on the rear of the pulley towards the rocker cover side,if you look at the pulley from the front its on the right hand side on the back and this should be lined up with the face were the rocker cover faces down(if that makes sense) then the two dots on the cams should face each other,that's it timed up !

 

After that's done turn the engine a few degrees the opposite way anticlockwise and time the distributor to fire on No 1 .

 

There you have it...easy as pie :wink:

[bcstudent 0]

Bear in mind that the no.1 piston can be at the TDC position during the exhaust stroke as well as the compression stroke. If the no.1 piston is at TDC, all valves are closed, the rotor arm is pointing close to no.1 cylinder and the flywheel mark is visible...you're in business. To check if the valves are closed you're obviously going to have to have the rocker cover off though.

 

Basically, do what CorradoVR6-n.o.s said but if things don't line up at TDC turn the crank through another 360 degrees. It should be fairly obvious when you're turning the crank through the compression stroke though as it'll be harder work than the exhaust stroke!

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

this is true,but also when you look at the cams the lobs on No.1 should face up-over for TDC for No.1 and not down indicating the next cycle.

[quicky1980 0]

cool, kinda knew all that, but like i said i cant get the top pulley off to see the mark. should i be able to see it withought removing?

 

any ideas on how to romove pulley bolts? these are proper rounds off, even with hex. im thinking of drilling them out

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

You dont need to remove the top pully to check mark.

 

use mole grips or something like that on the allen heads

[Valerian 0]

I assume you have the cam chain sprockets lined up correctly at TDC as well?

 

If all your TDC marks are correct and the car doesn't fire correctly you should start

adjusting the ignition timing.

[quicky1980 0]

as far as i know the cam chain sprockets are correctly lined up, but will double check tomoro.

ive been talking to saysomething and reckons it may be the ignition timing.

wish i take the bottom pulleys off to double check the timing.

[Valerian 0]

Why do you need to take the bottom pulley (s?) off?

[zerocool 0]

you don't need to take the bottom pulleys off to check the timing,as there should be a tdc mark on the botto pulley,which lines up with an arrow on the cam cover,also there is a tdc mark on the flywheel,normaly has a t stamped on it,or 0.

I would be checking the timing chain sprockets are correctly timed,as they can be a bit fiddely.

[quicky1980 0]

ok did some more today and found the notch on the bottom pulley so i lined that up to the mark. my cam sprocket was out by 180degrees so i change it round.

 

double checked my cam chain sprokets and they seemed slightly out 1 tooth. so i rotated it round. so that should be sorted.

 

now with cam sprocket spot on the mark and bottom pulley alos on the spot i placed the cam belt on.

 

put everything back together. tried starting but nothing

so i turned the dizzy round. only place i could find which made it kinda work was fully clockwise (as far as it can go). this cant be right.

would there be another position here the dizzy will make the engine work? if not where can i be wrong now???

[zerocool 0]

get the bottom pulley on tdc,then check for the mark on the flywheel and gearbox too.

without moving anything,check the timing mark on the cam pulley is correct,then check the dots on the chain sprockets are right.

one of them must be out,I normally find the dizzy should sit in the middle of its adjustment range or thereabouts

[quicky1980 0]

right, gone back to begining again. cam chain sprockets are spot on as far as i can tell (there fiddly)

 

bottom end tdc is spot on

 

top end tdc is spot on

 

it runs, but its not happy, its very lumpy. h100vw, said its possible that one of the cam followers may have stuck. could this be so? he said to wait and let oil pressure drop and then try again. ho long about?

 

i can hear some sort of clang/knock, h100vw said this could be due to sticking valve? doubt its valve/piston hitting as ive checked by hand to see if there's any contact and there isnt.

 

i have inc pics to see if any1 can see wher im going wrong

 

if anyone is in the worcester area i will gladly pay for someone to come and sort it out with me.

help im at my whits end

[quicky1980 0]

if i have made a mistake with the bottom end not being at the correct tdc and 180degrees out, will the car run (be it very badly)?

because im geussing this may be the only thing left to try. if not then ill send my car off to the garage and hopefully they can sort it. fingers crossed

[Valerian 0]

Right .......take number one spark plug out and put a stick down the spark plug hole

this will help you to see when no.1 is at TDC.

Now line up the TDC mark on the bottom pulley with the mark on the cambelt cover.

Go to the other end of the engine and check that the flywheel mark is at TDC.

If both marks are correctly aligned your stick should show that no.1 piston is at the top of it's stroke.

 

Now check the camshaft timing marks.

 

If all lines up ok then you need to check that you haven't replaced the dizzy bolts into the wrong holes.

The dizzy has two sets of bolt holes and if you get confused you can end up putting the bolts back into the wrong ones.

 

There is a TDC mark on the dizzy outer rim that should be just about lined up with the centre of the rotor arm when the engine is at TDC.

If it's not ....then you have dizzy bolts in the wrong holes.

 

If you've done work on the head you often get probs with sticky valves or lifters that can make a hell of a racket.

 

Just take your time and make sure you are calm before you check everything again.

 

I had a similar prob a couple of months back but patience is they key.

 

Even if you do feel like totally trashing the car and paying a scrap dealer huge sums of money to take the damn thing out of your sight.(like i nearly did a few times....lol)

[outlandish5 0]

Are the 2 cams lined up against each other correctly?

[quicky1980 0]

im 80% sure that the cams are lined up correctly

 

will check all the marks again today. getting fed up of stripping and rebuilding at the moment. the dizzy seems in the right place as i markedd the position before i got started.

 

i changed the manifold to 50mm jobbies too. could this be causing these problems?

[quicky1980 0]

bugger, still no good! ive noticed theres a split in the air intake rubber. im wondering if this is the problem?

only thing telling me it isnt is that it ran ok before i changed the cams were changed.

also i was lazy and didnt change any of the gaskets on the manifold so this may also be contributing to the non running.

im so fed up with it now ive booked it in to the garage. only problem is that they cant have it till wednesday. so i got ages to wait.

oh well it will give me chance to change the disks and suspension

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Don't give up now and send it off to a garage !! the only way you will learn by your mistakes is trial and error :wink:

[quicky1980 0]

i understand that but i really havent got time for it at the moment. ill just ask them what the mistake was. thats if they can find it.

thats a point, can mechanincs still charge even if they dont fix it?

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

thats a point, can mechanincs still charge even if they dont fix it?

 

Yes,but it depends were you take it and more to the point if they cant fix it they shouldn't be your choice of garage !! :wink:

[sciroccotune 0]

how’s it going then quicky1980? Just a quickl question, did you check the timing mark on the fly wheel (it’s a 0 or a circle) as the mark on my pulley end was way off.

 

Also a question that you boys may be able to answer. I have just done my timing belt and all seems well, but what’s the best way of tightening up the hex bolts on the pulleys. I think I managed to get ‘em tight but i would like a better way than holding the pulley by hand.

[quicky1980 0]

due to popular demand i will give it another try on Sunday.

i did check the flywheel marks, and every other mark(cam cover, belt cover).

the only things left could be the cam chain sprokets may still be out of alignment. if its not i may have more seriouse problems, hope not

so ill let you all know on sunday or monday how things have gone.

[saysomestuff 0]

Keep me posted mate - scuse the pun :oops:

[quicky1980 0]

ive attacthed pics of the the cam sprocket stamps, this is as close as can get them (ive tried half a dozen times at least). is this ok? its at tdc, all the other markings are 100% spot on.

So the only one im unsure about now are the cam sprockets so would apreciate if people think this is right.

if they are, what should i do now with the ignition.