Stalling

[CazzaVR 0]

Just when it was running really sweet.....

 

 

Basically the car has started stalling in the mornings. It starts fine, and drives fine until I stop at a junction or something, then it sometimes just goes completely dead :mad: It restarts fine though, and then drives perfectly!

 

What's going on?

 

Cheers!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Mine does that too and I've had to adopt a different driving style because of it. I bascially come off the gas and dip the clutch very slowly, long before the junction and then coast up to it. Coming off the gas and dipping the clutch abruptly can cause the engine to stall, but not always.

 

I'm trying a new ISV from Europarts tomorrow so I'll see how that goes.

 

Another thing you can check is the throttle damper. It's the little bellows behind the throttle body that catches the throttle and lowers it to rest gently. If this is worn, the ISV will struggle to catch the rpm drop, hence stalling.

 

HTH

 

Kev

[dr_mat 0]

I find that my (non-stalling) VR6 holds the engine revs up while the car is still moving (when I say "up" I mean 1200rpm or so). It seems to have a hook into the road speed sensors. Presumably this is to maintain brake vacuum assistance while the car is moving, or something like that.

It only allows the engine to drop to proper idle speed once the car is stationary.

I mention this because it may help to shed some light on why some cars *don't* do this. :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I find that my (non-stalling) VR6 holds the engine revs up while the car is still moving (when I say "up" I mean 1200rpm or so). It seems to have a hook into the road speed sensors. Presumably this is to maintain brake vacuum assistance while the car is moving, or something like that.

It only allows the engine to drop to proper idle speed once the car is stationary.

I mention this because it may help to shed some light on why some cars *don't* do this. :)

 

Sounds like an interesting theory. My rev counter just drops like a brick but I think it's the throttle damper that slows the revs down in the manner you describe. I ordered a new one today (see pic) from VW. It could also be that if the ISV is not responding to system commands?

Hopefully a new damper and ISV will cure the problem.

 

Kev

[Joe M 0]

The revs on mine dropped like a brick for a while, never had a prob with stalling though. It was cured by an ecu reset, this might help AndyVR6, but I think you just done a reset Kev?

 

Other things to check that can be difficult to spot on vr's are slight vacuum leaks.

[CazzaVR 0]

Cheers guys.

 

My symtoms sound identical to yours Kev. Let me know how you get on with the damper. How much is a new ISV? Might give mine a good old clean.

[CazzaVR 0]

Joe M,

 

How do you do an ECU reset? Do you have to go to VW?

 

Cheers

[Joe M 0]

Instructions attached, you only need to do the first part, dont worry about the vag com bit.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cheers Joe, great info. Thanks. I did do the ECU reset when I fitted a new throttle position sensor but the symptoms remain.

 

Andyvr6, the idle valve costs a rather silly £133 + VAT from Euro car parts. God knows how much VW will charge for it. The throttle damper is £31, which again is ludicrous considering what it is. I don't see any other way so have got to bite the bullet :(

 

Cleaning the ISV out doesn't really seem to help much, well not for long anyway.

 

I will get to the bottom of it though, even if it does bankrupt me in the process. Bloody car :evil:

 

Kev

[dr_mat 0]

The ISV - how "smart" is it. I mean, what does it do? I've heard that it's always a problem on other cars too, but never really known what it does, exactly, at the "this bit responds to that thing which triggers this..." level...

??

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The valve itself isn't smart but rather all the inputs the ECU needs in order to regulate the idle speed. I think it takes readings from the engine speed sensor, throttle position sensor and a couple of temperature sensors. The ISV has a motorised valve inside it that opens and blocks a passage way to regulate the idle. As they get old, the valve sticks causing the engine to idle badly, hence the old carb cleaner trick. Sometimes they just die completely.

 

When the Idle circuit isn't working properly, the ECU is supposed to fully open the ISV so that the engine remains startable and driveable, but it doesn't always work.

 

Kev

[CazzaVR 0]

Cheers Joe,

 

I'll give it a go when I get a minute :D

[Andy91 0]

My dads Volvo has developed same recently !! if he dips clutch too fast the thing stalls, great until the brakes and power steerin go.. esp when most ppl sip clutch when coming up to a roundabout/lights lol

[emax 0]

Check the breather hoses. I have had exactly the problem that AndyVR6 and Kevhaywire describe.

 

I tried a load of things like getting the ISV cleaned, ECU Resets, new plugs, leads etc.etc...

 

Turned out to be a leaking breather hose.

 

So, before going out and spending money on expensive parts, carefully check the hoses first.

 

HTH,

 

Euan.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good news. A new idle valve and dashpot has cured the stalling. I am a little dissapointed the new ISV hasn't cured the rough idle but it has smoothed it out a little, none the less and is rock steady.

 

Even better news. The new ISV has completely changed the way the engine behaves at low revs. It's a lot more eager off the mark and the engine is a whole lot smoother and more responsive/torquey below 3000 rpm. It's a pleasure to drive once again :lol:

 

I suppose that makes sense as the old valve wasn't closing fully off idle, causing an unwanted air loop. The popping and jerkiness I used to get on over-run and part throttle between 1100 and 2000rpm has also gone, so all in an all, a worthy job.

 

Kev

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Check the breather hoses. I have had exactly the problem that AndyVR6 and Kevhaywire describe.

 

I tried a load of things like getting the ISV cleaned, ECU Resets, new plugs, leads etc.etc...

 

Turned out to be a leaking breather hose.

 

So, before going out and spending money on expensive parts, carefully check the hoses first.

 

HTH,

 

Euan.

 

Yeah the rigid VR6 inlet hose (integral with the breather hose) are rubbish and prone to leaks. The pre 93 rubber inlet hose is much better. The little valve on the breather hose also fails causing rough low rpm running and fumes to leak.

 

Kev

[CazzaVR 0]

Kev,

 

Glad it's sorted :D

 

Mine hasn't done it since, so I'll wait and see before parting with my hard earned dosh. Sounds like it's kinda worth replacing the ISV anyway though.

[dr_mat 0]

My late VR6 appears to have a breather hose with a bellows on it - is this the solid type?

I did have to replace the valve (with the one from a Ford Galaxy, of course!), and it was a lot of "fun" getting the bloody clips back on... :?

Can't see any problems with the remainder of the hoses though.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Kev,

 

Glad it's sorted :D

 

Mine hasn't done it since, so I'll wait and see before parting with my hard earned dosh. Sounds like it's kinda worth replacing the ISV anyway though.

 

That's probably due to the hot weather. Mine behaved itself perfectly during the recent hot spells but on colder, over cast days, the engine would misbehave. I just want the car to be tip-top for the winter period as I DO NOT want to be nosing under the bonnet in sleet and rain. I just want to get in it and drive it - huh, who am I kidding? It's a Corrado right? LOL!

 

There is a good reason surrounding the hot weather synopsis. When the ambient temp is high, engines require less fuel and often operate more smoothly and keenly as a result, I know mine does. The opposite is true for forced induction though. So, there could be a fuelling issue if a NA car runs better when hot than on cold days. Over fuelling perhaps? Could be a temp sensor out or something.

 

Anyway, I digress.....keep an eye on the idle and if it keeps stalling when you abruptly dip the clutch, chances are the idle valve and dashpot will need doing. As Dr-Mat stated, the rev needle should drop to around 1000rpm and then lower gently down to 680rpm. Mine just plummeted like a brick to 200 rpm and then bounced up to 680, or would just cut out completely. Mine now does as Mr Mats.

 

Kev

[Kevin Bacon 5]

My late VR6 appears to have a breather hose with a bellows on it - is this the solid type?

I did have to replace the valve (with the one from a Ford Galaxy, of course!), and it was a lot of "fun" getting the bloody clips back on... :?

Can't see any problems with the remainder of the hoses though.

 

Yep, you have El Solido hose.

 

I tried getting the breather PCV valve from Ford but they were useless and my lie of saying it was for a 96 Galaxy back fired as they required a chassis number. When I owned up and said it was really for a Golf/Corrado VR6, they said "VR6 in a Golf?, F'ck me that must be quick".

 

Hmmmm. knowledgable chaps.

 

I just gave up and bought the complete hose (with PCV valve) from VW for £60 in the end. My original was looking tired anyway, so although a needless purchase, it's preventative maintanence, or that's how I justified it to myself at least :?

 

Kev

[dr_mat 0]

Yep, you have El Solido hose.

 

I tried getting the breather PCV valve from Ford but they were useless and my lie of saying it was for a 96 Galaxy back fired as they required a chassis number. When I owned up and said it was really for a Golf/Corrado VR6, they said "VR6 in a Golf?, F'ck me that must be quick".

 

Bright lads.

 

I got the valve from ford, but I took the part number with me.. I did tell him that it was for a Corrado. He looked at me like I was a nutter, but he sold it to me anyway...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I was going to read them the part number but based on the preliminary enquiries, thought better of it. I also just assumed the number would be VW and confuse them even more.

 

Nevermind, the job's done now and VW don't accept parts back that have been ordered in specially.

 

Kev

[dr_mat 0]

Ah, no, I took the FORD part number with me, courtesy of the mailing list folks. (I forget who dug the original numbers out.)

I can understand your confusion, however, I wasn't very clear... :)

[Stephan 0]

Problem seems to be solved now, but my experience FWIW with low power and engine cutting out abruptly on my '95 VR6. Because of the very high under-hood temps which the VR6 runs at, the 1/8" rubber vacuum hoses crack, or leak, when they lose elasticity. Replaced the ones on the exh. side with silicone tubing (from your friendly local model airplane shop) and the front ones with the pucca stuff with the woven fabric coating. Reset the ECU, and she runs beautifully again.

Stephan

[Kevin Bacon 5]

A nice cheap fix for you then - not fair :cry:

 

Kev