Suspension Decision Help

[Ice White Socks 0]

Hello,

 

I have Bilstein sprintline shocks fitted on my VR- they were always a bit harsh and when I left it for a service last the fella mentioned about the car bouncing as if the shocks weren't matched to the springs- I assumed the shocks were knackered and had started looking for a new set.

 

It looks like Bilstein have brought out a new kit called the B12- has the same dampers as sprintline but H&R springs- apparently they have realised that the Ventura springs supplied on the Sprintline don't match the shocks after all.

 

My shocks are now three years old and done about 40k. Is it worth me buying the H&R's for £140 odd and getting them fitted to my current shocks- or is this false economy and should I go straight for a new B12 kit (nearly 500 squids!).

 

I ask only because I have no idea how long good quality aftermarket shocks last- especially on a fairly demanding application like a VR6!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Dampers are perfect on day one and deterioate from then on, so it's up to you mate.

 

I'd tempted to get the B12 kit personally as you'll be starting over with fresh dampers and better springs (venturas are shite) and you never know, Bilstein may have even improved the dampers slightly over the years.

 

As an aside, Koni have released a new damper called FSD. Frequency Selective Damping and it's supposed to be excellent. It has clever valving to take away the comfort/sport compromise as it's both in one unit. Not available for any VW older than MK4 tho....yet. Hopefully they'll bring it out for us oldies too.

[Dr Forinor 0]

Hahahahahaha, honestly Kev, I swear you probably throw more money at your car than most people throw at their mortgages, hahaha. You're always after new stuff, that's good though because that means we have a test guinea always at hand :D :lol:

[Ice White Socks 0]

yeah your right Kev- do the Bilstein dampers have a bad reputation then? I thought they were supposed to be really good and it was just the shocks that were pants- plus the fact they are air-damping means no oil to leak out :-)

 

There is always the old Koni TA option if push comes to shove.

 

Dr F- Very true- Kev's car is a mobile test bed for the Corrado Forum :-P

[Kevin Bacon 5]

LOL.... yeah I do like trying new things otherwise I get bored too easily :-)

 

Bilstein dampers are definitely good yeah. It's the ventura springs that are about as much use as a cat flap in an Elephant house. They will leak when shot though as there is still oil in them, despite being gas ;-)

 

Dust off your wallet and get the B12s :-)

[Ice White Socks 0]

Been doing a bit more research into the B12's- apparently they lower by only 25mm/25mm. Not sure thats gonna be enough :(

 

>

 

Cheers

[Mike Edwards 0]

IWS - I'm confused.

 

You say you thought the dampers were good but the shocks were pants?

 

Did you mean the springs were pants?

 

BTW, I also found the Sprintline dampers harsh - the low frequecy dampers felt good, but the high frequency was way too stiff (rolling undulations in the road felt good, but catseyes would rattle my fillings loose!)

 

They do do good dampers, but you have to pay more.

[Mike Edwards 0]

Koni do the FSD for the Mk3 Polo - which will fit...

[StuartFZR400 0]

yeah your right Kev- do the Bilstein dampers have a bad reputation then?

 

No, they dont have a bad rep. Im running some Bilsteins now and they are doing thier job very well.As my Bilstiens have a full length stroke, I can afford to drop the car on new springs by 20mm and use the same shock (you can't, as yours are broken /// either that or the person who fitted them chose a shock too soft, which is very unlikely).

 

Just to clarify, as Im not sure if you're confused (as Mike E thinks too) - the SPRINGS are what will lower your car and give the harsh ride. The dampers are simply there to control the bound and rebound; the rebound being the rate at which the car springs back up having just run over a bump. Worn/knackered shocks mean the car will bounce back up on the springs and go back down a bit and up again (ie oscilating) ; like we often see American cars doing, lol (bouncy castle). However if you do lower the car, the correct length shock would be best advised.

 

So yes, REPLACE your shocks, as they sound knackered. Even though they are not old, they've done a few miles (although 80k would be better).

 

Been doing a bit more research into the B12's- apparently they lower by only 25mm/25mm. Not sure thats gonna be enough :(

 

>

 

Cheers

Good idea - see what else you can buy and afford. VR spec'd H&R springs on a Bilstein or Koni shock should be lovely!!

 

ps - 25mm drop .... ooooh, I wonder if they does those for the 2.0L 16v ??

where did you see them?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Koni do the FSD for the Mk3 Polo - which will fit...

 

Will the valving be correct for a VR6 though?

[H8RRA 0]

of al the corrado's and sspension set-ups i've had (7 vr's and i think 12 different suspension set-ups) - i'm most pleased with the koni coilovers i have now and for conventional springing, i found h&r's give the best handling/comfort combntation. i haven't tried the set-ups mentioned but do know these 2 mentioned perform well without being harsh

[davidwort 0]

...

Just to clarify, as Im not sure if you're confused (as Mike E thinks too) - the SPRINGS are what will lower your car and give the harsh ride. The dampers are simply there to control the bound and rebound; ...

 

To a certain extent, but I've found Eibach springs comfy with Koni's set to the softest setting, and everyone usually complains about them, anything higher particularly on the fronts and things then start getting harsh.

Having adjustable Koni's made a world of difference over the other uprated 'fixed' damping stuff I'd tried before.

 

David.

[StuartFZR400 0]

David. The only reason I can think you ride would become harsh in your instance - as I presume "higher" means firmer - is because a shock that is too firm/stiff would prevent the car returning to its original hieght (ie shock & spring only half compressed) before you hit another bump, thus you are at the strong part of the spring much sooner - a recipie for a harsh ride on Brit bumpy Rds.

 

Adjustables would be lovely; its all about budget for some people ;)

[Ice White Socks 0]

Looks like a confused a few people on this- Maybe if someone could answer this question- what if the neither the springs NOR the dampers were knackered- instead they were mismatched (this is how I said the mechanic said it felt).

 

When I phoned a company up to enquire they said the B12's were brought out for precisely this reason (on the sprintlines- the dampers are mismatched to the springs)

 

So my logic was that if my issues are due to this mismatched-ness! (ie my dampers are not in fact knackered)- Maybe I could rectify by replacing with the H&R's (ie by fitting springs that might match a bit better)

 

Hope alles klaar-

 

Final thought on the B12's- is the 25mm drop compared to a late VR or an early VR? (not that I expect anyone to know- its just there is quite a big difference in standard ride height between the two)

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Mike Edwards 0]

I'd look at Kev's suggestion that the "auxilliary jounce buffers" (aka bumpstops - though that's only one of their functions) were the wrong length.

 

VW do half-height items for the front (Mk4 Golf Sports Suspension) but the rears need trimming.

 

If these haven't been trimmed, then - as they act as additional springs - it will feel mis-matched.

[Ice White Socks 0]

mmm actually Mike you might be right- The bumpstops on the front are BIG- easily big enough to almost cover all the free movement in the damper piston.

 

I don't understand then- if you buy a spanking new set of dampers do people then reuse the bumpstops of the old set- so dismantle the new ones a bit and thread em over the damper?

 

I can cut the fronts back- on the rears the bumpstop appears to be joined to a piece of tubing that must protect the piston from muck- will these be from the original dampers or would they have come with the sprintlines? Do I need to trim them- if so then how and do I just get rid of the black tubing?

 

When I look at a new sprintline kit advertised I don't see any bumpstops included so maybe they are off the OE dampers- they were fitted by a specialist so I would have though they might have known?

 

Lots of questions in this post- thanks for any help :)

[Ice White Socks 0]

Yep- fronts were riding on the stops- cut them down and there is movement again in the fronts!

 

Have a few issues with the rears also- I have PM'ed you Mike (Edwards) as you seem to be a bump-stop guru and also have knowledge about the Bilstein sprintlines!