Startup problem when engine warm (16v)

[mattnorgrove 0]

Hi all, i've had this startup problem since i owned the car, approx 4 months now, the car's covered 130k so i suspected plugs, leads, distributor cap, all the usual stuff, and replaced all these, (10mm Shock Therapy leads, BERU dizzy cap, NGK plugs) however the problem remains.

 

I use the car as a daily drive and have noticed that when the engine and ambient temps are cool,(first thing in the morning) the engine starts on the first turn.

 

However when returning to the car after work (when the ambient temp is much higher) the car has problems firing up. It seems to ignite on 2 or 3 cylinders then after a few revs up to 3500-4000rpm (and sometimes a couple of pops from the tailpipe!) the engine runs smoothly.

 

Could it need a new coil maybe? Or air filter? (the previous owner has drilled a couple of holes in the body of the airbox so i may also replace this in time, any idea on a price for these?)

 

Please help as funds are running low and i need to know where to start as it seems everything i try doesn't work!! :(

[bcstudent 0]

It's almost guaranteed to be your injectors. My 1.8 16v used to do the exact same thing and I changed a lot of stuff trying to fix it. In the end I bit the bullet and forked out £132 for a new set of injectors from GSF and it's been perfect ever since.

 

Injectors can be bought a lot cheaper now from other companies, like £12.50 each cheap! A quick search should find the details you need.

[bighands 0]

Ditto, check e bay, there is some bloke knocking them out at £12.50 a go or try these . . .

Same price slighty more postage, still £60 quid delivered from the otherside of the world in 4-5 days ;-)

 

http://www.injectorsonline.com/indivprod.php?c=5

 

Andy

[mattnorgrove 0]

Cheers to you both, i did try some STP injector cleaner fuel additive.

 

Presume this is useless tho??

 

Thanks again... :)

[mattnorgrove 0]

just had a look aon fleabay, would these suit? Is the 16v the same engine as MK2 golf gti??

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Golf-MK2-Fuel- ... dZViewItem

[bighands 0]

Doubt injector cleaner would do a lot TBH, use these ones. .

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MERCEDES-BOSCH-IN ... dZViewItem

 

HUGE e bay link :-) there people i brought mine off, u have to remove the end cap bit and put them on the new ones, bit of heat does it, but cos there brass apparently ment to be better, and have a better spray pattern so im told by the lads off here!!

 

Andy

[mattnorgrove 0]

Thanks again for that. How difficult a job is it to do. I'm fairly mechanically minded but i dont want to get into strippin the engine down :oops:

 

You mention changing the end caps, can that be done by myself also?

[bighands 0]

nar there REALLY easy to do, pull them out, might be stiff but they will come (drop it nothing ment by that) and just 2 spanners, cant remember the sizes 12 and 14 rings a bell, and jut unbolt them.

When you heat them up make sure u tap out as much fuel as you can or you will end up witht the situation i had with boiling fuel in the injector catching alight and giving a 5ft jet flame shooting out the end across the kitchen and setting my hand alight!!!! be warned!!!

 

Andy

 

Oh and you dont have to touch the engine only to lean on when pulling out the injectors!! You can see the end caps on the injectors you posted up, they kinda just tap off with heat.

[mattnorgrove 0]

Ok, so to summarise, i need to remove the end cap from the new injectors and replace with the end caps off the existing ones??

 

(sorry to sound like a retard askin the same questions but i'll never live it down if i hash it up)

 

The rest sounds a piece of p*ss

 

(as long as you dont burn the house down??) :wink:

 

extinguishers at the ready!!

[bighands 0]

LOL yea thats it, but the new injectors dont come with any end caps, so u have to put the ones off the old injectors on, a couple were a bit loose on mine so i used some plumbers PTFE tape wound around the end to make them i tight fit, im sure it will be clear when there all laying in front of you.

Bloke on E bay only has 2 left, but im sure he deals in them and where he says he only has a few is boll**ks just a sale ploy so ask him and im sure he will find another 2 from somewhere ;-)

[mattnorgrove 0]

Nice one for that, i'll get in touch with the seller, see if he can't "find" another 2 from somewhere... :wink:

 

Thanks again for the advice, appreciated...

[bcstudent 0]

Keep us informed though. There's nothing worse than a 'problem' thread with suggestions but no conclusion!

[mattnorgrove 0]

Will do, i'll post the results as soon as the jobs done.

 

Cheers...

[mattnorgrove 0]

The seller on fleabay has "found some more" (funny that) so i've ordered 4. Should be here some time next week so i'll be attempting the job one evenin next week. I'll let you all know how it went.

 

i.e. if i can do it, any fool can! :wink:

[bcstudent 0]

Do they come with new injector seals? If not, get four from GSF for 70p each.

[Toad 0]

Hello mate, I've just done this exact job, and it does seem to have made a big difference to the starting when it's hot.

 

I had a spare set of injectors so I could fit the end cap and seals to the new ones and do a quick straight swap for the old ones, but if not....

 

You'll need to order 4 Large and 4 Small O rings from GSF, they might take a day or 2 to come into stock

 

Firstly, pull the old injectors out while the engine is warm, it makes it far easier, you'll need a 12mm and a 14mm spanner to undo each injector, fuel WILL escape at this point so probably best let the car cool down. and not smoke or something.

 

Try to cover up or protect the injector lines, the last thing you want is a bit of crap getting into one of the pipes and ending up in your new injectors.

 

To remove the endcaps, I left the injectors for a while so any fuel drained out of them, and removed the small o-rings from the caps. I gripped the injectors in a vice (by the hexagonal section) and heated the caps with a propane blowtorch till they were pretty warm, I used a pair of pliers to twist the caps off, don't grip them too tight and distort them though.

 

The large O rings are a bit of a bugger to fit to the new injectors so slide them on at this point.

 

I cleaned the caps out and applied a little loctite to the new injectors before sliding the caps on, at this stage I sued a vice to press the caps right home, using bits of thick cardboard to prevent damage, and ididn't use too much force either, I just wanted to make sure the caps were right on, so the spray pattern wasn't affected. It might be worth leaving one of your old injectors alone so that you can see what they're supposed to look like.

 

Fit the small O rings to the end caps and re attach to the injector lines, it'll take a bit of cranking to start, and probably will start on one or two initially. also I had a bit of a missfire on start up all day after, but they've settled in now.

 

Hope that helps.

[bighands 0]

No they dont, so prob best to, i didnt as they seemed in good nick and fitted too snug anyway (had to grease em up to get them in!)

 

I thought he might find some more, so much for 'last few remaining' ect!

[mattnorgrove 0]

Not sure, looking at the photo's i would say not. I'll take a trip to GSF i reckon... Cheers, i hadn't considered this...

[mattnorgrove 0]

Bugger! My local GSF don't sell the seals seperately, you have to buy the complete injector.

 

My 2 local VW stealers cant source the part either.

 

Will the existing seals do the job or is it essential to get the new ones??

[Supercharged 2]

VW do sell them, tell them to look at page 40-00 in sub group 33 - muppets.

[Toad 0]

My local GSF knew what they were straight away and had them in next day, VW want about £3 per injector for the two O rings!!!!

[mattnorgrove 0]

Supercahrged: Thanks for that, i'll give em a bell again and quote that cat no. Thanks.

 

Toad, my local GSF refused to sell them seperately?? Said the O rings come as part of the injectors and cannot be bought as a seperate item... The guy sounded like an arse tho so maybe he was having an off day, might try them again today, see if i get a different response. Cheers..

[Toad 0]

Sounds like you got a bit of a winky on the case mate, tell them that you tried another branch and they said they'd do them fine, if they're still arsing around I'll have a look at my invoice and give you the numbers on it.

[16vradge 0]

GSF in leeds sell them seperately, I just asked for 16v golf ones when I got mine.

[mattnorgrove 0]

Toad, just phoned the other B'ham branch, they've got them at 60p each.

 

16vradge, thanks m8, got em on the case now.

 

Cheers both...