Head Rebuild (!! NEW HEAD PICS !!)

[VRTrickster 0]

Right Ive just spoken to the fella doing my head rebuild and he says that two of my exhaust valves have stem wear. He said that they aren't to bad and could compensate with the appropriate guide liner. He also told how much it was going to cost me, a grand basically! :shock: But I believe he is going to do a very good flow job, well it wants to be for that sort of money!

He told me that new exhaust valves are £100 or something silly because there sodium filled! I was a bit concerned about spending this sort of money and not replacing the exhaust valves for them to burn out after a few thousand miles!

He had a look at his supplier for racing valves but the vr6 wasn't listed. Does anyone know where I could get some aftermarket racing valves fairly cheap? There are some listed on GSF web site, but there only £8 + vat so I don't really know what the quality would be like in comparison?

maybe I should just stick with the original valves, as its already going to cost me an arm and a leg?

He did say that after hes finished with it I should get it remapped straight away, which is more money lol !

[Crasher 3]

Genuine

[VRTrickster 0]

I phoned VW today and the exhaust valves are only £20.49 inc, so that's not bad at all. And with my Dad working at Audi I get genuine parts discounted which is even better!

I'm just a bit concerned with how much he is charging me for the work!

 

£ 476 ) For a rebuild with all new valve liners, five angled inlet and three angled exhaust.

 

£608 ) As above but with new special guides if the old ones cant be bored.

 

£480 ) The flow work to the lower inlet mani and head.

[double-6s 0]

Are you sure the flow work is worth it mate - for the money i mean?

 

I spoke to the guy who does it for loads of the big tuners, and he said a decent job will only give 5 to 10 bhp! For 480 quid!

[NickVR6 0]

Ill second that, everyone i've spoken too in the trade said its not worth it tbh.

I thought it was strange, but then i guess theres 2 answer i can guess at. As its a single head and by all accounts quite complex maze of water ways etc theres little room left or scope for heavy flow work. secondly, i guess its pretty good out of the box!

 

Inlet seems to be the weak point imo, both for heat soke and dissapointing low down torque. I'd consentrate on that, or ram some air down its throat ;-)

[vdubjb 0]

decent port and polish will yield up to 20hp in n/a trim.

[double-6s 0]

decent port and polish will yield up to 20hp in n/a trim.

 

Crapola

 

Do you carry out this work then mate?

 

Cos I spoke to th main man for doing this work in the uk, and he told me that 5 to 10 bhp is the most you will get. I'm sure he's wrong though eh? I'm sure he would lie about the gains and then not take my money!!

 

Its a complete waste of time and money unless you are in a competitive environment (motor racing) where every last bhp counts imo.

 

Got a dyno plot for the 20 bhp gain?

[Supercharged 2]

Maybe the 2.9 is different?

[double-6s 0]

Maybe it just doesn't liberate nearly as much power as people think?

 

I had mine booked in with the man, and he virtually told me not to bother cos its a waste of time. So he didn't get a penny off me.

 

If you really want it done, I have the name of the bloke if you want it - he is supposed to be the best and doesn't normally do work for the public.

[VRTrickster 0]

Cheers for the comments guys, and I understand what your saying, but still going ahead with it!

I think he was explaining to me that the torque would come in alot sooner and stressed that i would need a re map straight away!

I guess only the rollers will tell guys?

[double-6s 0]

Get a schrick intake instead mate. Then the torque really will come in lower and stronger! :)

 

Good luck, and I hope it does the job nicely.

[vdubjb 0]

decent port and polish will yield up to 20hp in n/a trim.

 

Crapola

 

Do you carry out this work then mate?

 

Cos I spoke to th main man for doing this work in the uk, and he told me that 5 to 10 bhp is the most you will get. I'm sure he's wrong though eh? I'm sure he would lie about the gains and then not take my money!!

 

Its a complete waste of time and money unless you are in a competitive environment (motor racing) where every last bhp counts imo.

 

Got a dyno plot for the 20 bhp gain?

 

There are quite a few vr6's that have run 12 second 1/4 miles with stock sized valves, Schrick 268°'s. These were all heads ported by one person in the States. He's the only person that has built cars that have run those times in N/A tune. You may not be familiar with a guy named Anthony Dowd, but in the states, his car and it's times are fairly legendary. I'll try to find some rolling road results, but these posts are from a few years ago. Noone is drag racing the vr6 in all motor trim because the class is too competitive under current rules. At the end of it's race career, it put down 225whp, using ITB's and a dodgey tune on standalone. Mind you, 2.8's dyno at ~145-155whp stock.

[double-6s 0]

None of that includes any evidence of porting giving 20 hp gains though does it mate?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

IMO, rather than polishing, the money would be better spent on larger valves to get more air in, rather than making the same amount of air's path easier.

 

Gasket matching the ports is quite effective too.

 

With N/A... the weak link does eventually become the head itself after you've done the throttle and cams. The next step is larger valves, heavy duty springs and short runner intakes, or throttle bodies. I'm guessing you prefer high revs to bottom end?

 

Keep the stock Sodium valves. You need those, especially on the rear bank. The sodium inside bobs up and down transferring heat from the valve to the head. Use sintered bronze guides and viton seals.

 

£1000 is a lot of money for a comparitively small gain. Schrick's own big valve head is only £200 more but will flow a lot more air than a ported stock head.

 

It's up to you mate, but for that money, you could do better I think.

[vdubjb 0]

None of that includes any evidence of porting giving 20 hp gains though does it mate?

 

 

Well, you can extropolate from the times and weight, just how much power the car is making. He rolling roaded the car at various stages. Like I said, it was making 225whp at the end of it's career. That's unheard for a stock 2.8 with a tired bottom end. Fastest time ever was an 11.7, and no other N/A trim vr6 has ever matched that. Trap speed was around 114mph I think.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

225whp (about 260ish crank) n/a sounds optimistic to me, but could be just about doable with a higher CR, 8000rpm limit, standalone , ITBs and 110 race gas I guess. However, the 11.7 1/4 needs a lot more than that to achieve. Slicks, short gearing, stripped out car etc etc?

 

Some times seem a little odd to me. How is it Schimmel's 700whp Jetta manages a 9.7 1/4 and a car with nearly 500whp less is only 2 seconds behind it? I'll need some proof to believe it personally.

[VRTrickster 0]

Right Ive ordered a set off exhaust valves o.e. I spoke to the guy today and he has managed to bore out the old guides to fit these liners -

 

http://www.cylinderheadshop.co.uk/K-line.html

 

So the jobs costing me £907 plus the price of the valves. If you think about it, its £480 for the flow work and the rest of the work needed to be done anyway!

When I told him my concern of the flow cost he assured me that it would be to a higher standard than other places that would just clean the ports out and slap a gas flowed badge on it! He is also carrying out more flow work to the lower inlet mani than had already been done by Micheal Herman when it was port matched. He said there was still more to be gained from it.

Im hopeing that with all the mods brought together and meshed with a quality remap from Vince will produce a pleasing result?

[double-6s 0]

Who's doing the flow work mate? Is it the fella at Allstage?

[double-6s 0]

None of that includes any evidence of porting giving 20 hp gains though does it mate?

 

 

Well, you can extropolate from the times and weight, just how much power the car is making. He rolling roaded the car at various stages. Like I said, it was making 225whp at the end of it's career. That's unheard for a stock 2.8 with a tired bottom end. Fastest time ever was an 11.7, and no other N/A trim vr6 has ever matched that. Trap speed was around 114mph I think.

 

Yeas, but you can't extrapolate anything about getting 20 hp from flowing the head can you?!! There's only one way to prove it, and thats a dyno standard and a dyno with flowed head. Simple.

[VRTrickster 0]

The person doing the flow work is called Len that runs The Cylinder Head Shop in the link I posted. He is based in southern Ireland now. If you look at the link you will see that he has got all the top machines, and works to the tightest of tolerances! No more lapping paste!

[VRTrickster 0]

Dropped my ex manis off at the Phirm yesterday for gasket matching. Should be getting the head back last week of this month, or first week of next. Its about time, as its been off the road a while now!

 

Ill keep you posted and get some pics up as soon as it arrives :)

[VRTrickster 0]

Right got the head back on Monday. I managed to build it back up and get it torqued down yesterday, but couldn't finish it off due to bad whether! :x

I was a bit disappointed when removing from the box that it hadn't been washed before the work, dipped etc, but its all about how the thing runs I suppose.

After de-greasing and jet washing it down I built the head up with out to many problems. I asked if I had to lap the valves in and he said just the new o.e exhaust valves I had sent him, and to use Autosol.

 

Here's some pics of the work -

[martyjmcfly 0]

Now i know nothing about head rebuilds but how does this head compare with Grant Motor sports large valve flowed head which is cheaper than the £1k figure you paid?

[VRTrickster 0]

I don't know mate as this is the only head Ive ever had rebuilt ! This is using standard valve sizes, concentrating more on the flow.

I thought Id take a different approach and send my head to a specialist, rather than your common VW tuner specialists like Grant, Race Power, Dub Shack etc.

I did look into getting it done by such firms, and asked for prices, but I thought Id be different and send it to this guy as he really knows his cylinder heads and has all the top notch equipment!

I feel that a quality rather than quantity and fancy cleaning may have its benefits. Only the rolling road will answer that for me!

 

Here's what was done -

 

6x inlet valve vapour blast and reface

 

12x Guide liners fit and size to suit stem

 

12x seats re profile 3 angle

 

Skim head -010"

 

Flow ports fast road use

 

Refine flow on inlet manifold

 

Matched inlet valve face to seats (back angle is 30 degrees)

 

Shaped inlet guide port protrusion to promote slight swirl

 

 

 

Its more of a bespoke head than your run of the mill stage 1, stage 2 etc !

[double-6s 0]

Car porn mate. It'll be a beast :)