The Forced Induction 16V Thread

[boost monkey 0]

...that would make a lot more sense! :brickwall:

[LowG 0]

The EVO is for sprints/sunday monster. You would be amazed how well they can spool the big turbos, launching is a piece of cake using launch control. It has a Crower stroker 2.4 crank, 8x very big injectors as it will be used on ethanol E85/E100 daily and VP import for racing.

 

The "gold" valve springs are not made of gold, they are high quality steel wire, withstand large coil bind, used in many Nascar teams.

 

I really hope they start selling E85 in more pumps around London, you can run such an aggressive tune and whole load of boost :luvlove:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Sounds great!

 

My local Morrisons sells E85, so I should give it a go I think!

[bigred 0]

whats e85?

[Dec 1]

85% Ethanol blended with 15% petrol.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep. The main benefits being higher octane, around 108 IIRC and much cooler burn temps, so a happier engine.

 

The temptation with that much octane is whack the timing right up, but the trick is to find the timing which produces peak torque, which is sometimes lower than you might expect ;-)

 

The downsides are:-

 

1) Not as 'calorific' as petrol, you need to burn more of it to achieve the same job, but it is cheaper, so kind of balances out. It's a bit like LPG in that respect.

 

2) Ethanol rots aluminium, so you need injectors and fuel pumps that are compatible. Most are though, so it's not a huge job to get the car ready for it.

 

3) Remapping. The fuel maps need redoing to make them rich enough.

 

4) Scarcity. There are only 3 or 4 E85 pumps nationwide last time I looked.

 

So the best option at this stage, would be a stanalone with switchable maps.....or better still, a GM Ethanol sensor hooked up to a standalone with automatic compensation so that you can run 100% E85, or 100% petrol, or a mixture of both seamlessly. That's basically how the Saab biopower engine does it.

 

If it's setup right, you can get as much as 20% more power forthe same boost cfm / pressure.

[don_stavrou 0]

guys, me again with my 2.0 16vT project, started getting the bits in going usa in a few weeks to get some more toys, has anyone got a picture of what the modified inlet manifold looks like cutting and welding the 1.8T mani with the 16v mani..

 

Thanks

[mrbeige 0]

If you find Crooksey's members gallery, he has a modded 1.8T inlet. Not too sure if he has a picture of it on its own.

 

There is a guy on Ed38 with a Passat 16vT as well, with a 1.8T manifold, but I'm not sure if he welded on a fabricated flange or not.....

 

Standard manifold (this is the one I have)

 

Found a pic of his manifold....

[don_stavrou 0]

thanks i think i got the idea now so all you basically use off the old mani is the flange that bolts onto the side of the engine..?

then drill any holes etc..

 

thanks

[boost monkey 0]

if you weld an inlet manifold, don't ever plan to run over 2 bar (if memory serves). You will literally do a "Fast and Furious"

 

(blow the welds on the intake manifold)

[don_stavrou 0]

whats the other way? lol..has anyone got an image of Crooksey build finished cant manage to find it in the members gallery, jus wanna see the way he set it all up..thanks

[mrbeige 0]

if you weld an inlet manifold, don't ever plan to run over 2 bar (if memory serves). You will literally do a "Fast and Furious"

 

(blow the welds on the intake manifold)

Erm, 2 bar is a funk load of boost! 29 psi which is LOADS :lol:

[boost monkey 0]

29.4 psi (or 44.1 psi absolute) and yeah I know it's a lot! What's your point? :salute:

[mrbeige 0]

29.4 psi (or 44.1 psi absolute) and yeah I know it's a lot! What's your point? :salute:

Well, in most 16vT applications you wont see anywhere near that! :cuckoo:

[boost monkey 0]

you're not trying hard enough ;) :lol:

 

seriously though, why reweld a manifold? You're just adding weaknesses into something which was cast in a mould. Surely there are some well-designed ones out there at reasonable prices?

 

Maybe I should start designing stuff, put this "boost monkey" name to good use :norty:

[mrbeige 0]

you're not trying hard enough ;) :lol:

 

seriously though, why reweld a manifold? You're just adding weaknesses into something which was cast in a mould. Surely there are some well-designed ones out there at reasonable prices?

 

Maybe I should start designing stuff, put this "boost monkey" name to good use :norty:

Well, you could use the standard inlet, as per the TT kit, but then why have long runners in a turbo application? This is the reason for 90% of 16vT builds I've seen use either fabricated alloy manifolds or modified S2/1.8T ones. Unless you are going down the the 500bhp+ route, a modified/welded manifold will be perfectly adequate. All you would be doing is totally over engineering one part of the system that doesn't really require it. Surely, you're money would be much better spent on pistons or rods or exhaust manifold

[Dec 1]

Also.....[strike:1xxaoiig]I'd say[/strike:1xxaoiig] there are far weaker points in the inlet system that would let go at high pressure than a weld on the inlet manifold!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

seriously though, why reweld a manifold? You're just adding weaknesses into something which was cast in a mould. Surely there are some well-designed ones out there at reasonable prices?

 

Bingo that man :salute:

 

This is the reason why Schimmel went to the trouble and expense of casting his VR6 Turbo short runner intake. The big GT40R or 42Rs he uses, pushing 30+ psi into a VR6 would open a cut and shut manifold like a sardine can.

 

Very well modified manifolds can and do hold though and up to 15psi you can get away with most shortfalls in construction quality. But get to 20psi and beyond, and all those cheap jubliee clips you thought would hold the boost pipes together, suddenly get blown off and any weak welding in intakes etc will rip open as you say....

 

Over engineering is always preferable to "just enough" and under engineering, even if you never intend on pushing the big cadburys boost.....

[Kevin Bacon 5]

And not only that, nearly every custom intake I've seen that's based on an OE one has warped mating faces when built.

 

A shortfall in boost management will cost you more than just an intake or a couple of hoses....it will cost you a new turbo aswell.

[boost monkey 0]

Yeah I agree with not using the standard manifold for F/I Stu; it'll work (in the same way a bike with oval wheels will work,) but it's not ideal.

 

short runners on N/A is fine if you hate idling below 3000rpm, but on a boosted motor you just want the shortest path to the cylinders which is why log manifolds are so good. I know it's all extra money (and tbh, now my 16v is running much better i'm not even sure I will go turbo in the foreseeable future) but as Kev says, it's the difference between blowing stuff up and making the power your were hoping for.

 

As stingy as I am, and as how little money as I have, I am starting to come round to the fact that you really do get what you pay for, as a generalisation (mates rates and bargains don't count! :lol:)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I am starting to come round to the fact that you really do get what you pay for,

 

:thumb right:

[boost monkey 0]

@Stu, yes you are right that money is probably better spent elsewhere and it's not wise at all to skimp on engine internals with regards to high-revving or blown applications :salute:

[mrbeige 0]

@Stu, yes you are right that money is probably better spent elsewhere and it's not wise at all to skimp on engine internals with regards to high-revving or blown applications :salute:

Indeed

I am starting to come round to the fact that you really do get what you pay for,

 

:thumb right:

And indeed again, but it all depends on your target horse power and ultimately your budget.

[don_stavrou 0]

well, what your all saying is true, and i have seen some custom intakes going around but in all fairness aiming for 350bhp with a shite load of low end torque isnt likely to blow the welds, i suppose its down to trail and error, but the 16vT that i have seen so far seem 2 be doing alright with the modified 1.8T mani, has it every happened to a TIG welded mani, or is it a assumption?

 

Dimz

[boost monkey 0]

Who mentioned low end torque, Don? Did i miss something?

 

I've seen it happen on a 5 cyl Audi 20vT but i think he was running 2.5-3bar dynamic boost pressure, can't remember if it was TIG/MIG/ARC/FBI welded off the top of my head.