CV Joint Bolts (VR6)

[andy 0]

I had a sudden metallic sound develop yesterday. It was roadspeed (ie drivetrain) related, which was a big relief as I thought it might have been big ends for a while! After jacking the car tonight I found all 6 bolts holding the inner driveshaft to the differential flange loose. Tightened them and it seems fine again. I've got one wheel very slightly out of balance, do you think that might be the cause......anyone else experience this? Its a bit strange.

[Supercharged 2]

Yeah, could have vibrated loose - more likely tho that theu were not torque'd correctly last time they were off...

 

Maybe worth sticking a blob of paint over them to the outside so you can visually check them easily

[herisites 0]

I reckon that i might have to check this out, i need to get my wheels balanced and have noticed that i can feel the drivetrain more lately. I am going to be replacing most parts soon anyway so this will be a good thing to check!!

[andy 0]

Update for you, today I Jacked the beast up and retorqued the bolts to 33lbft as per Mr Bentley's manual. Took her out for about 20 miles, all seemed well ........then it started again. Clack clack clack etc. I can only imagine they've come undone again. My old man reckons I might have ovalised the holes in the joint (by driving it yesterday when things were loose) which may have caused it to work loose again. Could be time for a new joint me thinks. Most bizzare.

[Taggart 0]

Mine came right loose, garage said I should have used threadlock on em.

[andy 0]

I was wondering if threadlock would make much of a difference. I haven't found anything in the manual about using it though.

[andy 0]

Jacked her up again tonight and the bolts are all tight still. The plot thickens. I'm still suspicious of said joint. I was checking for play (in a rotational sense) by rotating the driveshaft back and forth. There is a small amount of play, is this acceptable? The strange thing is that I drove the car this morning (a a short distance) and it was silent again, and again this afternoon. It only seems to happen when the car is really warmed up. What does this indicate? Perfectly quiet for 15 mins then all hell breaks loose. Wondering about a lack of grease possibly in the driveshaft boot, perhaps its spinning out of the joint after a good spanking. Any thoughts?

[Toad 0]

Jacked her up again tonight and the bolts are all tight still. The plot thickens. I'm still suspicious of said joint. I was checking for play (in a rotational sense) by rotating the driveshaft back and forth. There is a small amount of play, is this acceptable? The strange thing is that I drove the car this morning (a a short distance) and it was silent again, and again this afternoon. It only seems to happen when the car is really warmed up. What does this indicate? Perfectly quiet for 15 mins then all hell breaks loose. Wondering about a lack of grease possibly in the driveshaft boot, perhaps its spinning out of the joint after a good spanking. Any thoughts?

 

Did the bolts get loose enough for the grease to get thrown out of the joint?

 

You should see very little play in it. Are you sure it wasn't play in the gearbox?

 

It might be knackered and the vibration caused the bolts to loosen in the first place. .If you're really unsure replace it... It's not that much money (£40 from GSF I think) You'll get new bolts with the kit, and you'll need a big socket to drive the circlip home...

[Taggart 0]

All this talk of grease, vibration and a hot spanking is making me hot under the collar.

[andy 0]

Yep looks like I'll be replacing it.

[andy 0]

Pulled it all out today (what a job!) The inboard CV joint is in a wierd state. The grease is all quite hard, more like blu-tak than grease. There is unacceptable play in the joint, fairly sure thats where the metallic noise was coming from. Its only a year or so old. Its was GKN joint from GSF, needless to say I won't be fitting another one of those. In the past few years I've had to replace about 4 wheel bearings from GSF (the races were pitted and causing droning). Now a duff CV joint, needless to say I won't buy any more bearings or joints from there anymore. The dealer bits are miles more expensive but worth it, it would seem.

[Taggart 0]

It's a general consensus that GSF bearings, mounts etc are no good, and it's best to get robbed by a stealer.

[andy 0]

Its really annoying when I think back the number of hours I've spent diagnosing and fixing faults that have all been caused by inferior parts. I don't expect GSF parts in general to last as long as a genuine part but a year for a cv joint and 6 to 9 months for a wheel bearing is ridiculous. They will be hearing from me!

[herisites 0]

Dont suppose you done a guide on how to do the CV joints did you? Im doing a number of jobs on mine so if mine need doing i may as well do them whilst everything is off!

[andy 0]

Dont suppose you done a guide on how to do the CV joints did you? Im doing a number of jobs on mine so if mine need doing i may as well do them whilst everything is off!

I didn't no, there is a pictorial guide on this very site somewhere (not in the Wiki). I'll take some photos of the reassembly stages when I get hold of a new VW Joint.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah inner CVs "clack" under load when they're worn, just like the good old days of the MK2 GTI.

 

I'm surprised your GKN joint has failed as they're pretty good. I replaced mine a year ago aswell (all 4) with GKN and they're standing up to turbo torque no problem so far (touches wood!). I guess you were unlucky, but the grease shouldn't be hard, it should be runny if anything; being so close to the exhaust. Or was it the gearbox side joint that went?

 

I've heard of the torx bolts coming loose several times and in some cases, bad enough for a bolt to vibrate right out and smash a hole in the diff casing.

 

This would suggest to me that the factory / Bentley torque figure for these bolts isn't tight enough. Go by instinct. Think of the load those bolts are subjected to and 33lbs isn't enough. I'd do them up to 45-50lbs personally.

 

I think it was Toyota who made a similar blunder with the head bolt torque figure for the old shape Supra Turbo, it should have been 25lbs tighter than specified, so not even the manufacturers get it right all of the time!

[Supercharged 2]

Hmmm - Yeah GKN are OEM parts as i was looking at a driveshaft for the A4 Cab in the Rheine factory a couple of days ago.... 8)

 

Probably just unlucky unless it's a case of the pattern market part not being the same quality as the ones that go the VAG...

[Toad 0]

I did my inner CV bolts up quite tight, I'm sure they are a fair bit more than the reccomended torque...

 

I'm not too sure about this massive GSF downer people seem to be on, a lot of parts seem to be genuine OEM, and those that aren't can't be THAT bad.... Most of the 'cheap' bearing manufacturers have been building parts to proper spec for years, so I can't see premature failures being down to that, I just wonder if the garages fitting them just aren't doing a good enough job...

 

Hmmm.

 

Just a thought anyway.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Hmmmm, I think enough of us have fitted "Vtech" bearings from GSF to know that they are utter toilet :lol:

[andy 0]

I'm not too sure about this massive GSF downer people seem to be on, a lot of parts seem to be genuine OEM, and those that aren't can't be THAT bad....

I've bought GSF parts for years without problems, mainly on my 205GTi but more recently for VWs (various). I've recommended them to loads of people too, they've saved me loads of money. However.....in the last year as I said earlier, several wheel bearings (fitted by me...correctly!) and now a CV Joint kaputt. When I was swearing and cursing trying to remove my driveshaft it dawned on me how much time and effort I have gone to replacing sh1te parts lately. I'm only speaking from 1st hand experience, for me, now I won't bother with pattern parts. GSF sell plenty of Bosch parts etc (which I'd happily buy) much cheaper than the dealer and they'll still get my business for them.

 

I spoke to VW today about a replacement joint, only £20 more than GSF....but they don't have any stock of them in the country. At least 4 or 5 weeks they reckon. So I'm going to fit the GKN one I got the other day, I was reluctant to fit it after the premature failing of the last one but if you guys reckon GKN are OK then I guess I got a bad one last time 8)

 

The joint was off side Kev, so nearest the exhaust, maybe the grease was duff....

 

Cheers all.

[Toad 0]

I'm not too sure about this massive GSF downer people seem to be on, a lot of parts seem to be genuine OEM, and those that aren't can't be THAT bad....

I've bought GSF parts for years without problems, mainly on my 205GTi but more recently for VWs (various). I've recommended them to loads of people too, they've saved me loads of money. However.....in the last year as I said earlier, several wheel bearings (fitted by me...correctly!) and now a CV Joint kaputt. When I was swearing and cursing trying to remove my driveshaft it dawned on me how much time and effort I have gone to replacing sh1te parts lately. I'm only speaking from 1st hand experience, for me, now I won't bother with pattern parts. GSF sell plenty of Bosch parts etc (which I'd happily buy) much cheaper than the dealer and they'll still get my business for them.

 

I spoke to VW today about a replacement joint, only £20 more than GSF....but they don't have any stock of them in the country. At least 4 or 5 weeks they reckon. So I'm going to fit the GKN one I got the other day, I was reluctant to fit it after the premature failing of the last one but if you guys reckon GKN are OK then I guess I got a bad one last time 8)

 

The joint was off side Kev, so nearest the exhaust, maybe the grease was duff....

 

Cheers all.

 

GKN are a massive bearing supplier, you should have no problems...

 

Out of interest, there has been a recent influx of very cheap chinese bearings which are supposed to be pretty crap, but generally chinese bearing manufacturers are of reputable quality.