VWMS VSR on a coil pack Corrado?? Will it work??

[CdnCorrado 0]

3 questions guys (& gals):

 

1) Can a VSR be made to work properly on a coil pack car (1995 Corrado) without resorting to "work arounds"?

2) If so, what would be required? (if I have the original vacuum bulb and solenoid is it a simple as having a chip programmed?)

3) Can anyone provide a detailed list of the components that comprise a "complete" VSR kit?

 

I may have an opportunity to buy a VSR that is supposed to be complete. I've seen more than a few posts over the years where people purchased an incomplete VSR and then they spend the rest of their natural lives trying to find the required components to make it work. I'm hoping to avoid this fate. If there are certain items that are easy to procure even if not included with the VSR, feel free to mention this as well.

 

TIA

[Supercharged 2]

Hi there - you could PM Gazman on here as he has one fitted to a dizzy car but he also has a coilpack chip that was made using the original data from the original dizzy eeprom.

[corozin 0]

The VSR is designed to work on a coil pack car. The unit it triggered from the ECU and not the distributer/coilpack so there shouldn't be any compatibility issues. What problems / workarounds exactly were you anticipating?

 

The car will require a remap once the VSR is fitted and wired in, otherwise the engine will run lean in the midrange. In my case I have a schrick controller, which is spliced into the ECU cam sensor feed (I think it's pin 23) on the ECU. If you don't have a controller at all then I believe it can be done straight from the ECU but more programming of the ECU is required.

 

The VSR "kit" should roughly consist of:

[list:68d85]a) The VSR unit, including the valve. If yours doesn't have a valve, the call Stealth Racing as they now have drawings for the parts involved.

b) A vacuum bottle/unit - about the size of a small flask

c) 2x Vacuum hoses to connect unit to VSR, and unit to engine vacuum.

d) VSR Controller. I have a schrick controller but I believe there is a VW equivalent. This can be mounted up under the scuttle panel by the ECU.

e) The original VW motorsport kit came with a shortened pipe to connect the air temp sender to the head. If you don;t have one of these the existing rubber hoses will have to be cut down to fit as the VSR reduces the distance required by around 1

[CdnCorrado 0]

The VSR is designed to work on a coil pack car.

What problems / workarounds exactly were you anticipating?

 

I'm not sure what problems I'm expecting. I guess I just want some reassurance that the VSR can be installed on a coil pack car without it becoming a "hack" job.

Unfortunately I have no mechanical ability (...I know, I know, you're thinking "this guy owns a Corrado and he has no mechanical ability??? ...and now he wants to add a VSR??... that's just stupid").

 

I would be commissioning a VW mechanic/expert to do the install for me. Because the VSR is rare I assume the install will be somewhat less than straight forward, even for a VW expert. What I want to avoid is a situation where the VSR can't be installed because I don't have all the required parts, or it's installed but not working properly because the ecu wasn't reprogrammed properly and/or I need a Schrick type controller or some other gizmo in addition to reprogramming the ecu, etc.

Ideally, if the full benefit of the VSR can be harnessed by simply reprogramming the ecu I'd like to avoid using a Schrick controller (or a simple rpm switch). I spoke with Techtonics Tuning in the U.S.A. and they seemed to suggest that the ecu could be reprogrammed but that an extra wire would have to be run somewhere ...and the conversation quickly went above my head.

 

Any chance someone knows of a detailed VSR DIY install guide (maybe even coil pack specific??

[CdnCorrado 0]

Thanks corozin and Supercharged!!

...just the kind of expertise I'm looking for.

[Toad 0]

All sounds a bit complicated and troublesome... I'll take it off your hands for a pound... :lol:

 

Nice find mate. Good luck with it.

[dr_mat 0]

Actually the VSR was designed to run on a dizzy VR. It ceased production long before the CP cars came out.

The VSR was originally shipped with a chip that could be plugged straight into the older car's ECUs - this gave the correct fuelling and ignition mapping for use with the VSR and also enabled the correct ECU output line to trigger the close/open of the control flap.

 

As stated above though, pretty much all the Schrick VGI parts can do the same job, and whether you need a chip produced very much depends on the specifics of your engine, it's impossible to say in advance. Suffice it to say that to get the best from it you'll probably need a chip, but even without you should get some significant benefit.

[corozin 0]

If you're at all unsure what you're doing with the install, then call VInce at Stealth as he's very familiar with the VSR, can do all the chip reprogramming necessary to sort the fuelling/triggering out, and actually he isn't that expensive either. I had mine fitted there, so you're not alone on the mechanical front

:)

 

I can't stress enough how important it is to get the fueling mapped properly to map the VSR. Without it the car will run, but trust me it won't run any better. With the mapping done it'll be a different car to drive. It put increased the peak torque of mine by about 18ft/lb...

[CdnCorrado 0]

...all great advice.

Anyone else want to share their wisdom?

[JayGT 0]

Hi mate, you should have no problems there. I had the same predicament!

 

I was sure that I read somewhere that it was for dizzy engines only but since learnt that its an OBD1 engine only manifold (unless you do some major cutting/welding)

 

I had my VSR on a dizzy engine and it's now on a coilpack lump and running well (although i havent seen it :( )

 

As above when i get it back from the Phirm its off to Stealth for a remap!

[CdnCorrado 0]

Thanks for all the advice folks!! 8)

[iaco 0]

Sorry to bring this back up from the past. But I am currently trying to find out as much information possible on the VWMS VSR. My car came fitted with one when I purchased it last year. However it is not complete and missing a few odds and ends. The problems is I don't know what each original part is supposed to look like. Does anybody have a good picture of what each part is and maybe a lite description of it.

 

I just found out about this website, as I spend most my time on the Vortex and there aren't many owners who have the VSR on those boards. I have been spending hours looking in the search for information, and I've learned so much already. I'm just looking for the rest and how to make my car complete.

 

A picture to show you my set up.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The car will require a remap once the VSR is fitted and wired in, otherwise the engine will run lean in the midrange. In my case I have a schrick controller, which is spliced into the ECU cam sensor feed (I think it's pin 23) on the ECU. If you don't have a controller at all then I believe it can be done straight from the ECU but more programming of the ECU is required.

 

Sorry to correct you but the VSR / VGI takes it's signal from the thin green/black wire on the ECU loom (Dizzy and Coilpack), which is a straight rpm feed from the crank.

 

The cam sensor is purely for determining injector angle for sequential injection and spins at a different speed to the crank.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The problems is I don't know what each original part is supposed to look like. Does anybody have a good picture of what each part is and maybe a lite description of it.

 

On the manifold itself there should be an actuator valve which is linked to flap inside the plenum area underneath "VW Motorsport".

 

This actuator is fed by vacuum from a vacuum resevoir, which on the official factory fitted cars was a green globe. You need a vacuum feed from the manifold going to the resevoir, from there to an rpm controller and solenoid and from the controller / solenoid to the manifold actuator. The controller takes earth, switched live and rpm signal feeds. It's best to take the switched live from the ECU, which is a thick blue/red wire and the rpm comes from the thin green/black wire. Earth can be anywhere, but close to the ECU.

 

It's best to source the controller, se components from Schrick, or someone that sells schricks. Getting the original VWM parts will be tricky!

[tonedef 9]

My car came fitted with one when I purchased it last year.

Everyone's dream come true :lol:

 

If I read his for sale post right, Leonard had parts made for his VSR at Stealth so they should be able to provide any special parts required. I've often wondered why people go to such lengths to source incredibly rare original parts for these as they fundamentaly the same as a Schrick VGI and should therefore work fine using Schrick parts which are widely available if a little slow on delivery judging by the actuator and gaskets I bought a few months ago.

 

Mr Cheese beat me to it, damn slow Saudi internet connection :lol:

[tonedef 9]

Here are the vacuum tank, solenoid valve and control box that came with my Schrick.

[iaco 0]

Wow you guys reply fast and with useful information.

So what you are trying to say is this;

 

I'm more visual than textual,

 

Also with the vacuum tank, would something like this be acceptable?

 

I also have this picture of what appears to me as a "complete" kit. Can somebody point out what the round black disk is?

[tonedef 9]

I'm loving the little drawing! It's not quite right though

 

The rpm signal when using a schrick controller goes from the ecu to the controller, as does a power and ground (iirc), I got the details on here, from cheesewire probably. The controller then connects to the solenoid valve.

 

The vacuum hose goes from a vacuum source i.e. inlet manifold although it can be connected to various pipes within the engine bay (such as the one to the servo which has a couple of very handy blanked T's behind the engine block on the left side of the car) to the vacuum tank. Don't know exactly the arrangement of the OEM tank but the schrick one has two stabbings, the second of which connects first to the solenoid valve and then on to the VSR. It doesn't have to be exactly like that as long as the solenoid valve has one side connected to the VSR and the other connected to a vacuum line which also contains the tank it will all work fine as pressure is equal througout a system, all the tank does is keep the vacuum a bit more stable due to the increased system volume.

 

And yes the green tank in the photo looks like the OEM one suplied with the manifold. The black disk is a complete mystery to me!

[iaco 0]

Thanks. I actually don't need the Shrick controller box as I have just acquired an original distributor VSR chip from a guy in California. So with the chip, do I only need a wire going from the ECU to the solenoid/valve reading the RPM's?

 

Also which picture were you commenting on for the vacuum tank? The one with it installed in the car or the one laid out on the table? Because from my understanding the one on the table is "original" equipment and the one installed in the white car is a vacuum tank found on an 87 VW Fox.

 

Updated visual diagram:

[tonedef 9]

Thanks. I actually don't need the Shrick controller box as I have just acquired an original distributor VSR chip from a guy in California. So with the chip, do I only need a wire going from the ECU to the solenoid/valve reading the RPM's?

 

Also which picture were you commenting on for the vacuum tank? The one with it installed in the car or the one laid out on the table? Because from my understanding the one on the table is "original" equipment and the one installed in the white car is a vacuum tank found on an 87 VW Fox.

I'm afraid I can't really help with the solenoid controller problem as my experience is only with the schrick setup, I'm sure somebody else will be able to shed some light there. The drawing is however showing things in all the correct locations now.

 

I didn't realise the two vacuum tanks were actually different but don't see any reason for not using whatever tank you have access to. I have not fitted a tank on mine as I already had one for the climatronic system so simply broke into one of the lines from that with a T piece and it all works fine.

[iaco 0]

Does somebody have a close up of the solenoid valve and where the wires connect to it?

[pikske 0]

can you help me I need the vwm chip

[emu 0]

As far as I know when had my VSR in a past it works on coilpack obd2 engine with only one small problem. It doesn't work as was designed after 4000 RPM. I have a crazy bosch specialist guy who developed some kind of pigback who resolve this problem. Tested and works. Have one in my hands but newer had it fitted as sold my VSR long time ago. This guy had it fitted and it does the job perfect.

[pikske 0]

For a hole week I have been looking for answers.

there are a lot of different story's.

some talk about pin 48 of the ecu that give's 14volt when you reach 4150tr/min.

than you dont need a controllerbox

some talk about pin 22,23.

than you need a controler box

I dont have a controler box.

 

but I can tell you for sure that the VSR came with a special gasflap

 

can anyone help me withe the chip??picture's?

[Chris Langdon 0]

this is a very interesting thread, just wish i could afford one at the moment :( :(