supercharge kits - worth it?

[StormchargedVR6 0]

Trouble with this stuff is that once you start it just goes on and on. I blame the forum myself, for putting all these ideas in our heads! :lol:

 

Got to agree there, theres no end. You want to see my list of things still to do :shock: ££££££ if only

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

 

What you need is a nice GT35R turbo....kicks hard all the way to 7000rpm and will do 600hp without breaking into a sweat. Can deliver 40psi.

 

Mine kicked in at 3500 and upto full boost at 3700ish...and oh yes Amen !!!

[RS VR6 0]

Got my stuff second hand. Cost me 3k for the stage 2, 800usd for the Schrick VGi...got the Schrick 260/264 cams new for 450usd. Making about 280bhp.

 

[Kevin Bacon 5]

 

What you need is a nice GT35R turbo....kicks hard all the way to 7000rpm and will do 600hp without breaking into a sweat. Can deliver 40psi.

 

Mine kicked in at 3500 and upto full boost at 3700ish...and oh yes Amen !!!

 

Nice 8)

 

You went for the 0.82 hot side didn't you?

 

I've got a 35 on order, but considering going for the 0.63 to get it spool a little sooner as I want full beans at around 3300rpm....

[jamminvr6storm 0]

Got my stuff second hand. Cost me 3k for the stage 2, 800usd for the Schrick VGi...got the Schrick 260/264 cams new for 450usd. Making about 280bhp.

 

 

Very nice looking motor fella ;)

 

I would have thought you'd be making a little more then 280? Have you had it mapped / tested?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That's all the Stage 2 Vortechs make.....

[samg60 0]

Lag whats that, I think this is a common misconception about turbos, I thought for years that turbos would be laggy and and the car have no power under 4000rpm, but you are not driving a japanese car that has no low down grunt and nothing happens until the high revs, if you do the turbo thing correctly you shoudl end up with pretty decent low down grunt much the same as the standard VR and then huge power above the 3000rpm range.

[jamminvr6storm 0]

That's all the Stage 2 Vortechs make.....

 

Really..... mine made 275 with only 5psi :lol:

 

Lag whats that, I think this is a common misconception about turbos, I thought for years that turbos would be laggy and and the car have no power under 4000rpm, but you are not driving a japanese car that has no low down grunt and nothing happens until the high revs, if you do the turbo thing correctly you shoudl end up with pretty decent low down grunt much the same as the standard VR and then huge power above the 3000rpm range.

 

Its dependant on setup tho surely.....

 

I had an RS Turbo (in a diferent life :lol: ) running 194bhp (not bad from a 1.6) but the lag was awfull..... I remember i got beat off the lights by a cinquecento sporting..... till i hit 3000rpm and the touque steer nearly pulled me off the road :shock:

[samg60 0]

yeah its very dependant on setup, but VRs are grunty engines anyway and I meant it simply as a comparison as its assumed by a lot of people that turbo cars are always laggy like some of the japanese cars with turbos. but they really dont have to be.. 8)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I meant the US 2.8s quote 280hp for the Stage 2 ;-)

 

UK 2.9s get 290-295 with the stage 2!

 

Turbos, yes.... choose well and get the motor singing way before the compressor's surge line and you will have one stonkingly quick car.

 

RS turbos....well....they had a T3 turbo (IIRC), which was too big for a 1600 CVH imo....and it's a really old journal bearing design too.

 

Modern ball bearings spool very fast in comparison.

 

Even the beastly GT35R turbo with a 1.06 hot side, which is a big, full fat, 40psi, 600hp turbo makes 5psi at 2800rpm, 12psi at 4000rpm and then from there it pulls savagely to the redline.

 

Put a GT30R on the VR6 and by 3000rpm it's banging out full boost. I know stock 1.8Ts make peak torque at 1800rpm, but you don't need all that down there as it's tricky to drive smoothly at slow speeds....well, that's what i found anyway.

 

Sam, you're too kind on the VR6, they are gutless below 4000rpm normally aspirated :lol:

[jamminvr6storm 0]

 

Sam, you're too kind on the VR6, they are gutless below 4000rpm normally aspirated :lol:

 

 

Agreed, even with a Vortech :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Aye, Mr Vortech doesn't get out of bed until about 3800ish rpm and doesn't deliver the full Heinz Baked 8psi beans until 7000rpm :shock:

 

The VR6 prefers his dinner force fed a bit lower down, so therefore a big portion of turbo or Rotrex is better for that low down shove :-)

[RS VR6 0]

Very nice looking motor fella ;)

 

I would have thought you'd be making a little more then 280? Have you had it mapped / tested?

 

I'm just running the base VF map. Its been over 40k and so far no issues. I had it dyno'd on a Clayton before the Schrick cams and got 272 to the engine.

 

Powerwise for me, its what I'm looking for. The Schrick gives it a nice bit of torque before the charger kicks in.

 

I've looked into turbos before I got the VF kit. The wheel spin is what I couldn't live with. From a stop 1st and 2nd were pretty much useless. I drove a VR turbo before...an it wasn't what I wanted out of my Corrado.

[tribetype40 0]

Interesting stuff guys, so (looks to cheesewire and crazydave....) what set up would you suggest if I want to achieve power (nothing too crazy) say 350-380 BHP, minimal lag (so, good turbo) full boost somewhere low like 2.5k rpm and not above 3k rpm...?

 

by charge cooling I figure the inlet can be much shorter which should reduce the potential for lag?

 

Also wheres best to buy the spacer head gasket (do you need to add links to the timing chain?), arp bolts etc?

 

Cheers

 

Doug

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep, the shorter the boost pipe path and the less restrictive the intercooler, the faster the throttle response and therefore less lag ;-)

 

You can get spacers from many places and whether or not you need to add a chain link depends on how far off the timing is when fitted. I've never had problems with a spacer misaligning the TDC timing tbh.

 

If you want full boost at 2.5K, a Garrett GT3071R will be around that, depending on boost pressure, but you have to be careful with gears 1 to 3 in the wet.

 

I've been VR turboed for a year now, covering some 12,000+ daily miles and during that time I've tried the GT3071, GT3076 and the GT3582 turbos! Not whimsically I might add, just through a sequence of unfortunate mishaps.

 

Based on all scenarios you're ever likely to see on the roads, I would say the GT35R is the perfect turbo for a VR6.

 

It kicks in just at the right rpm imo, spooling at around 2800rpm, boosting at 3100 and full boost at 3500rpm. From 4000 to 7000 rpm it's savage.

 

The great thing about this is you can floor it in 2nd and 3rd from low speeds and the car will accelerate quickly and progressively and when you hit 3500rpm, there's enough momentum to not get spin.

 

Do the same in the 3076 or 3071 and you will just light up the tyres below 3000rpm and go nowhere, therefore, the GT35 is faster, even though it spools later. Does that make sense?

 

I could go on for hours but certainly no smaller than the 3076, but the optimum is the 3582. Especially if you look at it's compressor maps and compare to the VR6's cfm.....

[junkie 0]

The great thing about this is you can floor it in 2nd and 3rd from low speeds and the car will accelerate quickly and progressively and when you hit 3500rpm, there's enough momentum to not get spin.

 

Totally agree, a bigger/laggier turbo is basically like having traction control, big enough to not get wheelspin low down the gears yet small enough to start pulling the car reasonably well.

 

Normal driving conditions will be smooth and relaxed with a larger turbo, instead of been quite manic low down the revs, then nothing higher up as he compressor loses effiency.

 

Turbos are not what they used to be back in the day, much better modern designs for improved drivability and performance all in 1 shot.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The 3071 was excatly like that, manic at lower rpms and it used to choke a little at the top end.

 

Extensive testing of a GT3582 with 1.06 housing on a VR6 has shown that when set to 20psi (it can do double that!!) and you floor it from low revs, at 2800rpm it's making 5psi, at 3500rpm it's making 12psi and at 4000rpm 20psi....

 

That's pretty good for such a big turbine housing. I have the smaller 0.82 housing, so mine boosts a little earlier than that one but that's what you want, about 5-6psi at 2800rpm, which will give enough kick to feel fast, but not the full 20psi, which will just shred the tyres.

 

I would also stress that a turbine jacket is a must because Corrados just aren't designed to withstand the heat. It's so bad, all the glue holding the bitumen sound deadening sheets down under the wipers has melted and the sheets are just loose and flapping around in there.

 

I've tried 3 different jackets and the Owen Developments one is the best. It's also the cheapest and easiest to fit (in situ!) and it massively reduces temps and it also reduces spool time a bit too.

[junkie 0]

Will have to invest in a turbine jacket then, thought about it before just never got round to it, are Owen Devolepments only expensive for turbo's?

 

I get 0.5bar at 3000rpm then 1.5bar at 3500rpm, so it can catch you a little off guard in certain conditions and be a little manic but for the most part its spot on then the boost is tailed off to 1.2 bar at the 7000rpm rev limit.

 

So you can see why i was looking into a slightly larger turbo.

[SiGainey 0]

To me, the benefits of a supercharger are that it's a much simpler install though - in simplistic terms, you get a new sump, drill it for a fitting, get the hose cut to the right length, T piece for the feed, bit of piping for the outlet of the s/c, relocate the air filter / delete the charcoal canister and swap out the tensioner. If you get a spare sump and all the parts ready beforehand, it's a DIY job in a day if you are happy to tackle a sump swap.

 

For a turbo, isn't it a case of new exhaust manifold, new downpipe, more than likely an intercooler & plumbing and [keep me true on this part] pull the head and install a spacer. To me, this is more of a complex job that a s/c and probably not a day job unless you're very well prepared with a spare head that's ready skimmed.

 

Good info on the rotrex though, always been tempted by a supercharger, and this would be the one I'd go for :)

[junkie 0]

But on a supercharger if you want to start pushing the psi then its head off some form of charge cooling etc, but yes i suppose it is easier to begin with.

Also what kind of power delivery do you want as 300bhp s/c engine v 300bhp t/c engine will be very different.

 

Your explanation is simple and sounds a lot easier when reading it than doing it but look at herisites buid as that was meant to be simple to do and its turning into do this and that which i guarantee you most of you will end up doing whichever route you go, take the advice from cheesewire that has gone down nearly every road there is to do on the VR6 tuning.

[junkie 0]

Having just drove a s/c VR6, not Rotrex but the other kind i can see what people say that it only starts to be good at 4000rpm onwards, but my god do they drive smoothly and sound proper evil. On the A1 it was equally as fast as mine was, both foot to the floor and no difference what so ever.

[StormchargedVR6 0]

Im very happy with mine now, set up with Emerald & wideband, running a treat 337bhp , Pulls to 7k in a flash :D