engine bay tapping noise - its running now!!

[Toad 0]

Block of wood sounds like a good answer. The head sits on dowels to fix the alignment and it might be a little tight on them.

 

Valve seats are ground ( go for a 3 angle seat), guides can be replaced, stem seals, the whole head is decoked in a hot bath and comes back looking shiny. They are pressure tested to check that there are no cracks, the valves are typically inspected and replaced if necessary, new tappets are fitted.

[Roger Blassberg 0]

it sounds as though the intermediate sprocket may have failed (it is in two parts, interlocked) so that the bottom chain is not driving the top one. Probably the extra stress from the seizing camshaft bearing has taken its toll. Let's hope it was not the bottom sprocket that has failed, because that is integral with the crankshaft.

 

OK, it was a a flippant remark before, but how about getting a brand new head from Fourseasons? At that price it's a real bargain. Check out the vag price first, though. Prices go up and down like a bride's nightie.The labour charges to sort yours out are going to be very high, plus new camshaft(s). In fact, are bearing caps available separately?

 

The other question is, "where has all the swarf from your camshaft bearing and journal gone?"Sorry to sound negative, but a total strip down may be on the cards.

 

Best wishes,

 

RB

[alex303 0]

Anyone who has replaced their cams with 268s etc, do you still have your old cams spare? If so, please let me know. Thanks

 

Hi fla, i've got a set of stock VR cams that you'd be welcome to for free if they help, they we're removed by G-Werks about 9 months ago when they fitted my 268's, the cams had about 102K on them before they came out & ran fine!

 

I'm not a million miles away from you in Kent (about 10 miles from the Darford crossing) so drop me a pm if i can help!

[Toad 0]

In fact, are bearing caps available separately?

 

If they are or you can get a second hand one, it should be machined to fit the head = More expense...

[pete_griff 0]

I reckon those vernier pulleys you can get for the VR6 would be a damn good purchase

 

 

kev i'm pretty surprised with all you've done to your car so far you haven't got these already, especially with forced induction!

 

 

fla if you were looking to upgrade (it's pretty expensive i admit) but last time i spoke to vince at stealth the price for a brand new 12v head ported/polished with big valves was £1000 - maybe you can ask him if stealth are having a january sale! :lol:

 

that is pretty steep i admit, but if you were planning on keeping the car with the 12v engine and wanted to upgrade, now would be a good time...

 

RB talks lots of sense by the way - that is some pretty horrific wear in the pictures above - chances are the inside of your oil filter looks like a glitter factory :(

 

sorry for you my friend - thats real bad luck considering the mileage on the car, and the fact it's an auto as well so should in theory have had an easier life than most :?

[fla 9]

it sounds as though the intermediate sprocket may have failed (it is in two parts, interlocked) so that the bottom chain is not driving the top one. Probably the extra stress from the seizing camshaft bearing has taken its toll. Let's hope it was not the bottom sprocket that has failed, because that is integral with the crankshaft.

 

OK, it was a a flippant remark before, but how about getting a brand new head from Fourseasons? At that price it's a real bargain. Check out the vag price first, though. Prices go up and down like a bride's nightie.The labour charges to sort yours out are going to be very high, plus new camshaft(s). In fact, are bearing caps available separately?

 

The other question is, "where has all the swarf from your camshaft bearing and journal gone?"Sorry to sound negative, but a total strip down may be on the cards.

 

Best wishes,

 

RB

 

I think the same as you Roger, the intermediate sprocket may have failed. The plan is to strip the block down completely anyway. I think apart from this there is no defintive way of finding out what has happened. The swarf? Well that was strewn all over the head, the main bits were sitting in the worn bearing cap, other bits had caused some scoring, and i'm sure there will be yet more particle around the block.

 

Once the engine is out, i'll take some pics and see where to go from there. TBH, funds dont permit the Fourseasons head at present, but if all else fails this may be the only resort. Or to put another engine in, which, whilst cheaper, would have its own set of potential problems.

 

 

Hi fla, i've got a set of stock VR cams that you'd be welcome to for free if they help, they we're removed by G-Werks about 9 months ago when they fitted my 268's, the cams had about 102K on them before they came out & ran fine!

 

I'm not a million miles away from you in Kent (about 10 miles from the Darford crossing) so drop me a pm if i can help!

 

Alex303, thanks for the offer. I'll try and come down and pick them up form you soon, unless you happen to be coming over near to this side of london at any time in the near future?

 

Can the tappets and valves be removed simply from the block or is any specialist equipment required? What about refitting? My first priority is to get the head off (hopefully this weekend) and then pull the engine out. All comments are well appreciated so far. What are your thoughts on contacting VW in this regard?

[fla 9]

Removed the head this afternoon. Yet another twist to this saga - the upper chain guide was broken at the end. About 4cm from the lower portion was just sitting on the chains. The lower simplex chain was also broken, the pin in the link was sheared and three of the valves in the head are bent. Otherwise a great weekend lol.

I'll post the pictures up in the next few days. Just need to clear some more space from the side of the engine bay and get the block out. Pistons look fine, not even scratched, but a bit mucky - carbon deposits which i'll hoover out. Would it be safe to assume that the bottom end is okay? If not, what should i be looking out for? The engine will hopefully come out on Tuesday so i can get at the chains etc. I'll change both chains for peace of mind together with the chain guide. The upper tensioner has almost no wear on it - what you would expect at only 53k. I'll check the sprockets and then put it all back together. WRT the head, how do you remove the stems and where can you get replacement parts? is this a stealer-only area and is valve stem replacement an easy task? If i get a replacement head, how would i check the condition of the stem seals etc? How much are the valve components?

 

Just a note to anyone who has thought of doing this but was too scared - there is the view that the VR engine is uber complex. OK it is quite messy, but if you are logical in your approach and dont force anything if it doesnt move, plus you go methodically, there will be no maor problems. The help from forum members is invaluable so start a thread and you'll get lots of advice, even if it is a small bit you pick up. Mine is an auto with aircon - that means a damn big gearbox and an over-congested engine bay. But so far its not been too bad. Maybe i'll change my viewpoint when the engine is out though....

 

I'm no mechanic, just an enthusiast, but it pays to take lots of pictures, and to bag and label all the screws and parts removed. Also, give yourself some time, its not the sort of thing that you can do in a weekend. Maybe some can, i certainly cant.

 

Will post some pics up soon.

[pete_griff 0]

fla mate - if you check my thread i answered your question as best i could, hope it helps

 

also mate, check your cylinder bores - if lots of swarf has been flying around your engine, they will be your best indicator of bottom end wear without taking the sump off. in all honesty though, looking at the pics of your head, i would take the whole bottom end apart to do a cursory check anyway - theres no point spending money on getting the head sorted out then have the bottom end start knocking on you a few months down the line - if you're planning on keeping the same engine in the car, i'd take the lot apart now - you are halfway there now anyway!

 

you never know - you may find that the bottom end is untouched, but personally i'd like to know that before putting it all back together

[alex303 0]

Hi fla, i don't get round that side of the M25 too often mate as i'm mainly in central london for work etc, but the cams are'nt going anywhere & i'll keep hold of them for you if they'll help, alternatively if you have another friend or family member who lives a bit nearer to me & can pick them up, pm me & we'll sort something out!

 

regards Alex

 

Alex303, thanks for the offer. I'll try and come down and pick them up form you soon, unless you happen to be coming over near to this side of london at any time in the near future?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I don't need them Pete as I'm not using a head spacer and therefore the chain/sprocket alignment is spot on ;-) I would like to experiment with them though because I remember years ago Stealth playing with a Vernier on an Audi 16V engine, and they found 10lb/ft torque across the range with that as the only mod.....and that's a big increase a valver!!

 

Fla, not wanting to steal the thunder of any offers you've received already, but I have a complete head (with cams) sat in the shed which was rebuilt by Stealth about 10,000 miles ago. I took it off to fit the big valve head and it was fine. It just needs tappets.

 

You or anyone else that wants it is welcome to it for £100.

[fla 9]

fla mate - if you check my thread i answered your question as best i could, hope it helps

 

also mate, check your cylinder bores - if lots of swarf has been flying around your engine, they will be your best indicator of bottom end wear without taking the sump off. in all honesty though, looking at the pics of your head, i would take the whole bottom end apart to do a cursory check anyway - theres no point spending money on getting the head sorted out then have the bottom end start knocking on you a few months down the line - if you're planning on keeping the same engine in the car, i'd take the lot apart now - you are halfway there now anyway!

 

you never know - you may find that the bottom end is untouched, but personally i'd like to know that before putting it all back together

 

Just checked your thread, and yes, some great pointers there, thanks.

Thereis hardly anything in the cylinders, they generally look clean, but a bit carbony (if thats a word lol) on teh tops. No scoring thankfully. I havent got round to doing anything further on the car, hopefully this Sunday will be better, weather permitting.

 

Just need to remove the rad and coolant pipes and then hopefully we're clear to drop the block onto some pallets and pull it out.

 

BTW, how involved is it to take the bottom end apart?

 

Fla, not wanting to steal the thunder of any offers you've received already, but I have a complete head (with cams) sat in the shed which was rebuilt by Stealth about 10,000 miles ago. I took it off to fit the big valve head and it was fine. It just needs tappets.

 

You or anyone else that wants it is welcome to it for £100.

 

OK Kev I'll take it. I'm still prob going to take the other parts offered, you can never have too many spares! Just to confirm, the tappets are the shiny valve caps are they? If so, i can just pull off my existing ones and reuse them. That will save me a big headache of getting everyhting redone. So this is essentially plug & play? IBH, if you've got a pci it will be pretty obvious from that. Thanks for the offer. PM sent.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yep, tappets are the shiney things sitting under the cam lobes.

 

You can reuse your old ones if you want, but personally, after the action that's gone on in there, I'd use new ones!

[fla 9]

Aircon makes removing all the gubbins from the engine bay a real mission. Thought i needed to take out the p/s pump, but it doesnt help, so i just removed one of the pipes from the front of the car and spilled a bit of the fluid in the process :oops: Anyway, on the battery side, there are a HUGE number of cables, wires and bits and bobs to locate and disconnect which is tricky.

I've removed the coolant pipes and header tank, with the wiring to the injectors which gives some more space. The aircon compressor is sitting on top of the block and now i just need to remove a few cables from the starter motor etc and work out some of the piping routes.

There is one wire i disconnected and forget to label - it is a two-wire conector at the front of the bay, the connector looks very much like a spark plug connector. It runs through the cable bracket that sits above the crank sensor. One wire is black, the other is black and yellow.

Will post some pic up this evening, together with some progress shots.

The more you remove teh more you see how mucky the bay is. I've polished and sprayed my manifold (upper and lower), but the other scabby bits will bring everything down. Once tehe engine is out though, things will be a lot easier, hopefully.

 

Haywire? I'll give you a shout this evening to sort some time out this week, if that suits.

[pete_griff 0]

Anyway, on the battery side, there are a HUGE number of cables, wires and bits and bobs to locate and disconnect which is tricky.

 

hey buddy the way i sort stuff like that is with white insulation tape, then write on that in black marker what the wires/connectors are for. Also pics are good - not only to show people what you've done, but proof that it's been done if ever you want to sell the car, but most importantly - if you get stuck on something you can refer back to them to refresh your memory.

 

hope all is going well for you anyway bud :)

[fla 9]

You're right pal - i've done that for most of the others. I use masking tape and write some sort of scribble on that. Its just that some connectors seemed so obvious i forgot to label them. And of course when you come back to it, you've forgotten what they were for in the first place. Cheers for the kind words.

[fla 9]

I was very pleased to meet Kev Haywire. Really nice chap and down to earth, but a huge fountain of knowledge. The car was super smooth too, maybe one day i'll get a drive in it :wink: Many thanks for the head, i'll use one of the cams i've got and install the sprocket on the other.

 

Just a few new pics as an update. Lots of bits to be polished too - the aircon pump is big and heavy but its not feasible to remove all those bits. Hopefully the engine will come out this weekend, which will mean i can work on the chains the the garage and when the weather is good the engine bay can be cleaned and polished up. I'll take a picture of the connector i cant remember the location of - in description, the connector looks like one of the injector connectors. It has two thin wires, one black and one yellow/black. It runs across the front of the engine bay where the crank sensor cable clips in. Any ideas?

[pete_griff 0]

glad to see you're getting stuck in my friend :) - really not difficult once you take the first initial plunge is it?! (i remember i was really nervous when i took my first engine to bits!)

 

hope you manage to get all the parts etc that you need - that's the worst bit - i hate all the waiting :(

 

good luck with it all anyway, make sure you keep us posted on your progress...

[fla 9]

Yeah you're right Griff. I too was terrified of opening it all up. When Roger (RB) came over i admitted defeat and said i'd get a new block and throw that in. Anyway, Zak helped out and convinced me to take it apart and went a good way to helping me out. Now its just a question of being methodical.

[fla 9]

A couple of questions: how do you disconnect the driveshafts - i've removed teh 6 bolts from the drivers side but cant remove the shaft from the flange on teh gearbox outlet.

Now teh second, which actually took me about 3 hours and i still diodnt get anywhere:

 

Passenger side bolts - 5 are loose; the sixth has got rounded. And there's no space to get any mle grips in there or to weld a socket or driver into the head. Its a 6mm hex and i tried hammering in a 7mm which didnt get anywhere. I've also tried using a piece for copper wiore (2.5mm) as a filler but tehis just got squashed (of course copper id very soft).

 

Any ideas as i was hoping to get the engine out this weekend. Its just one bloody bolt holding this back and it is HUGELY frustrating.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Hi mate, good to meet you the other night. Sorry I had to rush off, things to do unfortunately!

 

I don't know if the auto is any different to the manual gearbox in this respect, but space is tight on the driver's side. If you shake the shaft a bit and tap the inner CV joint, it should come loose from the flange?

 

On the passenger side, sounds like you need one of those bolt extractor tools. Can't remember what they're called, but they grip the outside of the bolt head and bite into it as you turn the ratched. They work brilliantly. Just spin the road wheel to get the bolt into a more user friendly position and you may find it easier doing it from underneath?

[fla 9]

Top info as usual Kev, i'll pick one of them up from the auto factors tonight. With the drivers side, i tapped it with a piece of wood (top down and diagnonally) then with a hammer on the end of the wood, but it didnt want to move at all. It was as though there was a lip into which the CV joint was fitted. I didnt want to whack it too hard just in case i made anothe problem for myself LOL.

Another point, is there any way of removing the front cross member without disconnecting the PS pump or cooling pipe? I did try and get the pump off but it didnt want to slide out. Plus i'm loathe to remove the cooling pipe as i dont want to end up with airlocks in the PS system.

Cheers

[Roger Blassberg 0]

I have a set made by (from memory) Irwen, or Irwin. They are sockets with a left hand very coarse conical spiral thread, each of which adapts to a small range of bolt head sizes, and just bites into the bolt as you do it up as Kev says. They are an absolute life saver.

Hasan, give me a call if you want to borrow them and arrange to pick them up from the office in Greenford on your way past one day.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[pete_griff 0]

I'll take a picture of the connector i cant remember the location of - in description, the connector looks like one of the injector connectors. It has two thin wires, one black and one yellow/black. It runs across the front of the engine bay where the crank sensor cable clips in. Any ideas?

 

that connector possibly sounds like the vacuum/air pressure sensor thingy in the side of the upper part of the inlet manifold to the right of it as you look at the engine from the front of the car - pick up your upper inlet and have a look...

[fla 9]

I have a set made by (from memory) Irwen, or Irwin. They are sockets with a left hand very coarse conical spiral thread, each of which adapts to a small range of bolt head sizes, and just bites into the bolt as you do it up as Kev says. They are an absolute life saver.

Hasan, give me a call if you want to borrow them and arrange to pick them up from the office in Greenford on your way past one day.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

 

Thanks for that Roger, i'll probably drop by later this week if that suits?

[Roger Blassberg 0]

Hasan,

 

you have my mobile number? I'm here from about 0730 most mornings, until about 1645. Give me a call (not while you are driving of course!!) before you turn up and I'll get security to let you into the car park.

 

Best wishes

 

RB