engine bay tapping noise - its running now!!

[davidwort 0]

...On the passenger side, sounds like you need one of those bolt extractor tools. Can't remember what they're called, but they grip the outside of the bolt head and bite into it as you turn the ratched...

 

think you mean Irwin bolt grippers, Supercharged always raves about them, not cheap tools tho.

 

Whenever I've encountered one like this I've always managed to tap them round with a hammer and small chisel, or a chisel and then a punch once you've started a notch in the bolt head.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah they're the fellas, Irwins. Blue and yellow box with a bunch of different sizes.

 

They are indespensible for removing rounded out coilpack bolts ;-)

 

Hasan, there is a very small lip in the flange the inner cv hooks into but it should plop out no problem. There is a gasket on the inner CV thinking about it, which seals to the flange to stop the CV grease flinging out. Sometimes they stick on quite hard.

Or you may end up having to take the whole shaft off and that's not a particularly pleasant job.

[fla 9]

Yeah they're the fellas, Irwins. Blue and yellow box with a bunch of different sizes.

 

They are indespensible for removing rounded out coilpack bolts ;-)

 

Hasan, there is a very small lip in the flange the inner cv hooks into but it should plop out no problem. There is a gasket on the inner CV thinking about it, which seals to the flange to stop the CV grease flinging out. Sometimes they stick on quite hard.

Or you may end up having to take the whole shaft off and that's not a particularly pleasant job.

 

Thanks for that Kev, dont fancy pulling the shafts out. I'll try and coax it to the side. I presume these need to be hung to stop any excessive load on teh out cv joints?

 

Hasan,

 

you have my mobile number? I'm here from about 0730 most mornings, until about 1645. Give me a call (not while you are driving of course!!) before you turn up and I'll get security to let you into the car park.

 

Best wishes

 

RB

 

See you later this afternoon Roger

[fla 9]

I was very pleased to meet Kev Haywire. Really nice chap and down to earth, but a huge fountain of knowledge. The car was super smooth too, maybe one day i'll get a drive in it :wink: Many thanks for the head, i'll use one of the cams i've got and install the sprocket on the other.

 

 

Kev, i presume a lot of the smoothness of your engine can be attributed to the cams, would that be true? Also, how tight does the sprocket without the cam sensor ring need to be?

[fla 9]

Thanks to Roger for the loan of the Irwin bolt extractors, i managed to remove the offending item and free the driveshaft. Even then it wasnt easy, simply due to the access to the passener side driveshaft. Removed the PAS pipe from the reservoir to the cooling pipe across the front of the cross member and lost some of teh fluid. Which do you need to fill it up with, btw? Its down to the minimum level.

Removed teh engine mounting bolts.

Jacked the car up and finally managed to manoeuvre the tyre and trolley under the engine when we rn out of light. Just need to lower the car onto the tyre, remove the cross member and pull the block out. Sounds straightfoward, but wont be, i know. We've got a gravel drive which doesnt help.

 

The cylinders have some dust and bits of head gasket material in them. Although its a little while away, what is the best way of getting all of that crud out and does it need to be absolutely spotless?

Also, doe the driveshaft flanges need to be filled up with Lithium grease or any other grease on reassembly?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I didn't see the smoothness / cam question, but yeah they did help make it run smoother 8)

 

RE: stuff in the cylinders, the only danger is if you spill bits of sand paper down there when you're resurfacing the block face.

You can't really get them spotless without stripping the engine tbh. Just hoover out what you can. The rest will just get burned up and thrown out the exhaust when you run it.

 

The flange doesn't need filling with grease, but the CV joint does. Use Castrol Graphite grease or any old CV grease you can lay your hands on.

[fla 9]

 

RE: stuff in the cylinders, the only danger is if you spill bits of sand paper down there when you're resurfacing the block face.

You can't really get them spotless without stripping the engine tbh. Just hoover out what you can. The rest will just get burned up and thrown out the exhaust when you run it.

 

 

OK, thanks for that. Whats teh best way to block the cylinders to minimise the abrasions dropping into them? I was going to stuff them full of rags after hoovering? My concern is if something remains that shouldnt be there and i end up with totally shot pistons.

 

Also, when refitting the tappets, should the oil hole point in any particular direction relative to the feed hole in the head or can you just drop them in without regard for orientation?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah I'm the same way. I stress about bits of emery cloth getting stuck between the piston and the cylinder wall and then scratching the bores when you turn it over!

 

It doesn't happen though mate. Done it quite a few times and never suffered any bore damage.

 

If you're really concerned about it, I would put a layer of grease on the bore just above the piston. That will catch any crumbs that fall down there. Or you could seal the bore completely with tape.... or find some 82mm diameter poster tubes and use the plastic end caps to stick in the cylinders..... endless options :lol:

[fla 9]

we're like old women with our cars Kev! Any advice on the tappet direction?

[fla 9]

checked Bentley last night and there doesnt seem to be any mention of the direction. Is that correct?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Tappet direction? They just drop straight in mate. There are no special procedures 8)

[fla 9]

OK, that good to know, cheers Kev. Just need to order eth two chains, the guides and driveshaft bolts from VW and change them over on the weekend once the engine's out. Then the fiddly timing procedure, which i'm NOT looking forward to. And then, the rebuild, which shuld be interesting :) BTW, how do you check that the oil pump is being driven by the intermediate shaft? How is it connected to the shaft?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If you look at the back of the block for the 'capped off' bit, that's where the oil pump drive meets the intermediate shaft drive. The int shaft bearing is in there I believe.

 

With no bottom chain and the sump off and oil pick up/strainer off, you should see the pump gears spin when you manually turn the int shaft sprocket.

[fla 9]

If you look at the back of the block for the 'capped off' bit, that's where the oil pump drive meets the intermediate shaft drive. The int shaft bearing is in there I believe.

 

With no bottom chain and the sump off and oil pick up/strainer off, you should see the pump gears spin when you manually turn the int shaft sprocket.

 

OK, cheers Kev. Can always count on the Haywire to come up with the goods :)

[fla 9]

Looks like the pump operates okay, by turning the crank pulley you can see the pump shaft turning under that plate. Is teh pump itself locateed in the sump? I want to check teh pickup screen for blockage.

Also, is there any way of checking the discharge rate of the pump off-line?

 

The head is now ready, the old tappets came out okay and dropped in nicely. Had to remove some of teh exhaust manifold threaded bars from teh old head and screwed tehm back in to teh new head - bit of a mission but we're there now.

Engine out next weekend and chains etc to be replaced. I'll post some pics this weekend.

[fla 9]

Just wanted some info on retiming the engine. The first and obvious point is that my engine has a broken lower chain so thereis no reference timing position to go back to.

Second the head is off some again the same point.

 

1. Once the lower chain comes off, and I manually turn the crank pulley to ensure cyl 1 is at TDC, what position should the other pistons be in, so as i am not 180 degrees out? Can anyone supply a picture of this?

2. In this position, what should the position of the intermediate pulley be?

3. Also in this position, what should the position of the cams be? From 2cc's very comprehensive thread, it appears that the cams should have the smaller part of teh end bolts upwards, so hoipefully that is question 3 solved, but advice welcomed.

 

Thanks all.

[fla 9]

Anyone? Haywire?

[Roger Blassberg 0]

1. Assuming that the crankshaft is in one piece (sorry, just my little joke!!) the positions of all the other pistons shouldn't concern you as they will always stay in the same relationship to Nr. 1. I should think that they will all be somewhere other than tdc, because the layout of the crankshaft is not all in one plane as it would be for a straight 6.

 

2. Don't know. As we have said before, it SHOULD be immaterial, but Cheesewire had another opinion on that one.

 

3. Cam slots horizontal, and in line with each other and the face of the head, small sector up is my interpretation of the instructions,

 

Best wishes

 

RB

[Kevin Bacon 5]

RE: 2) I would call stealth and speak to Vince because I'm not 100% sure of the deal on that one.

[fla 9]

OK thanks Roger and Kev. So it is not as complex as originally expected, just keep the cams in place and line up the crank pulley with the TDC mark on the engine block. There is a kind of dwell point when the crank will turn but the piston will stay still, pretty much. Is there another mark somewhere else to take this into account?

[fla 9]

Spoke with vince re teh intermediate pulley and he says it is important to align it correctly, as the operation coincides with the 4-strokes of the engine and there is a ground tooth to show its positioning. IN fact looking at a thread from Vortex re chain replacement, it is easier to re-setup the timing with both chains removed as you only need to align three marks and these can be easily set when its all clear. 2cc doesnt appear to be around any more (he wrote a very comprehensive guide for the Wiki), but any potential pitfalls or things to watch out for would be appreciated.

[fla 9]

Finally got the engine out this weekend, and damn its heavy. The auto box with it weighs a ton. Didnt help that the engine crane didnt have a rotating attachment for the arm. Aircon management was also a nightmare and it took us the best part of 2 hours to get it clear. Had to remove the front cross member plus the other part that spans both sides of the chassis. Anyway, some pics attached (pic 1 needs to be rotated 90 degress anti clockwise). Next step to take the box off and do the chains.

[dirtytorque 0]

car looks in very good condition.(apart from the obvious :) )

very clean.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Spoke with vince re teh intermediate pulley and he says it is important to align it correctly, as the operation coincides with the 4-strokes of the engine and there is a ground tooth to show its positioning. IN fact looking at a thread from Vortex re chain replacement, it is easier to re-setup the timing with both chains removed as you only need to align three marks and these can be easily set when its all clear. 2cc doesnt appear to be around any more (he wrote a very comprehensive guide for the Wiki), but any potential pitfalls or things to watch out for would be appreciated.

 

Yep. It's to make sure the sequential and knock controls get the correct TDC signal.

 

On the manual VR6, there are 4 TDC markers......Flywheel, crank pulley, clutch pressure plate and a chamfered tooth on the lower chain pulley.

 

Yours being an Auto will be slightly different. Probably markers on the fluid flywheel somewhere?

 

The intermediate shaft must align with 0 or 180 (degrees) once every 4 crank turns and that then puts the cams in a true TDC position, meaning the sequential injection and knock control will be accurate, aswell as the cam timing.

 

All you need to do before you put the gearbox back on and after you've timed it is spin the engine by hand. I recommend 8 times. 1 bunch of 4 turns to check the int shaft lines at 0, then again for sanity's sake.

 

I would use the top intermediate marker (as per factory) because you can see that with the box in situ for any future timing work.

[fla 9]

[

On the manual VR6, there are 4 TDC markers......Flywheel, crank pulley, clutch pressure plate and a chamfered tooth on the lower chain pulley.

 

 

Great, thats what i was looking for. I dont think it is any great shakes retiming the engine, just a slow and careful iteration of the correct positions. Like you said, i'll turn it over manually a few times before bolting everyhting up. I just dont think it will fire up first time though....