transmission losses

[sparks 0]

hi people

i know its a very grey area but whats the average transmission loses on a standard G60 standard gearbox standard wheels

i though it was about 10%to 20% but someone told me that G60 lose about 40 to 50 bhp though the wheels

 

anyone got any ideas /research !!

 

cheers stu ..

[boost monkey 0]

Yeah, it should be 10-20% on a VW transmission iirc.

 

40-50hp on a std G60 would be 25-31% which is a little steep!

[dr_mat 0]

Those numbers don't look unusual. Regardless of what it *should* be that's about what most people find on the rolling roads.

[Sandy 0]

That's been my experience and I've attended loads of rolling road days

 

Cheers

 

Sandy

[boost monkey 0]

VW boxes make me sad then.

[dr_mat 0]

VW boxes make me sad then.

 

Not just the boxes. It's the inertia that the wheels/driveshafts/hubs/brake disks etc etc have to absorb too, which gets proportionally greater in higher gears.

[boost monkey 0]

VW drivetrains make me sad!

 

That's a ridiculous tranny loss.

[CTWG60 0]

Take a look on here for lots of examples of "power at clutch" and "Max Power" on all sorts of VAG cars

 

http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/rollingroa ... 05.07.html

[steve @ 0]

from the top of my head mine on stealths rollers when near standard made 162bhp ATW and 198bhp ATF so a 36 loss. End of the day wheel hp is all thats important.

[boost monkey 0]

^^^ all those VAG cars are 10% or less loss, between Clutch Power and Max Power...

[CTWG60 0]

^^^ all those VAG cars are 10% or less loss, between Clutch Power and Max Power...

 

Yes they are and awesome's rolling road is one of the most accurate RR (which has been proven by there running of standard new cars and getting book clutch figures) in the country and just out of curiosity I called them up and spoke to a very helpful man who informed me what I have always suspected. Power figures at the clutch in most cases is a geustimate and he said if you see 40-50bhp loss through a FWD car something is very wrong and you would struggle to push the car physically.

 

Don't flame me if you find this information upsetting. This is just the results of a little bit of research.

[Guest]

^^^ all those VAG cars are 10% or less loss, between Clutch Power and Max Power...

 

Yes they are and awesome's rolling road is one of the most accurate RR (which has been proven by there running of standard new cars and getting book clutch figures) in the country and just out of curiosity I called them up and spoke to a very helpful man who informed me what I have always suspected. Power figures at the clutch in most cases is a geustimate and he said if you see 40-50bhp loss through a FWD car something is very wrong and you would struggle to push the car physically.

 

Don't flame me if you find this information upsetting. This is just the results of a little bit of research.

 

:shocked!:

mines loosing 45bhp :mad2:

[Sandy 0]

Mines loses around 45bhp as well

 

Scottish Corrado Forum rolling road day you'll notice the loss for most is around 40 - 50bhp

 

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5629

[boost monkey 0]

^^^ all those VAG cars are 10% or less loss, between Clutch Power and Max Power...

 

Yes they are and awesome's rolling road is one of the most accurate RR (which has been proven by there running of standard new cars and getting book clutch figures) in the country and just out of curiosity I called them up and spoke to a very helpful man who informed me what I have always suspected. Power figures at the clutch in most cases is a geustimate and he said if you see 40-50bhp loss through a FWD car something is very wrong and you would struggle to push the car physically.

 

Don't flame me if you find this information upsetting. This is just the results of a little bit of research.

 

I welcome it with open arms! :clap:

 

I always thought 20%+ was too high for a FWD car.

[boost monkey 0]

from the top of my head mine on stealths rollers when near standard made 162bhp ATW and 198bhp ATF so a 36 loss. End of the day wheel hp is all thats important.

 

Very true, wheel power is all that matters. Btw, that 36hp loss is only 18% which is about in keeping with what I think it should be, under 20%.

[Guest]

So if 40-50bhp loss is aparantly a problem then im guessing that other makes of cars have better results. can anyone on here confirm this?

[boost monkey 0]

I know 205 GTis I've had before came in around the 18% mark.

[Toad 0]

My valver lost about 40bhp through the transmission when I rollererereererereereededededisededediserered it.

[CTWG60 0]

So if 40-50bhp loss is aparantly a problem then im guessing that other makes of cars have better results. can anyone on here confirm this?

 

It's not so much the car as the rolling road used that probably has the problem.

 

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/trans.htm

 

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/coastdwn.htm

 

Those scottish rolling road figures are strange in my opinion.

 

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5629&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

Name........................Car................Din Pwr.........at wheels.......trq

 

Fat Tony........................Corrado G60......182...............129...........170

vr6paul.........................Corrado VR6.......210...............147.5........185

Sandy...........................Corrado G60.......217...............164...........197

vr6storm.......................Corrado VR6.......189...............138...........175 :(

Glenn............................Corrado 2.0 16v..135...............96............130

Gary Burke...................Golf GTi/VR6.......190...............136...........174

Jim Gardner..................Golf GTi Mk4 8v...118................???..........???

Zak..............................Corrado 1.8 16v..128.................???..........???

Mystic...........................Corrado VR6.......196.5..............140.........183

BigGrim........................Corrado G60.......182.................132.........169

Andycowuk...................Scirocco 16v.......149.5...............99.5........120

Sda2489.......................Corrado VR6.......183.5..............129.5.......170

Dangermouse................Corrado G60.......177.5..............137.........180

DickDastardly................Corrado VR6.......193.5..............146.5......178

johnJ.............................Corrado VR6......???.................???..........???

Eliot I............................Corrado VR6......197.5..............141..........181

Dub 16..........................Polo 1.4 16v.......115.5..............73.5.........99

Dave Manson.................Passat GT16v.....153.................112.5.......135

Martin McBride...............Golf VR6............189.................140..........176

Ess_three......................Golf GTi 16v.......174.................126.5........

G40Al............................Golf GTi 1.8T......161.5..............116.5.......163

Scotcorradog60..............Corrado G60......245.5..............175.5.......200

Matt G60 ltd...................Golf Limited........196.................121*........199

Stephen Reid.................Lotus Elan SE......162.5..............123.5.......145

Brian.............................Alfa 156 V6........169.................125..........151

 

*-4WD

[boost monkey 0]

Yeah, they're all coming in at 25-30+% loss :shock: Ouch.

 

I know in the old days, and especially for the ricer mags they used to pay off the RR guy to calibrate the rollers to read high to boost inflated egos :cuckoo:

[CTWG60 0]

Yeah, they're all coming in at 25-30+% loss :shock: Ouch.

 

I know in the old days, and especially for the ricer mags they used to pay off the RR guy to calibrate the rollers to read high to boost inflated egos :cuckoo:

 

 

But what's weird about those numbers is that the flywheel figures don't seem very exaggerated but the high losses and hence the wheel figures seem low. I can't get my head around how that would happen unless the rolling road had a fault or was absorbing a lot of the torque and measuring it's own run down losses. :scratch:

[boost monkey 0]

To be perfectly honest, I don't know enough about RR machinery and how the rundown is calculated to comment on the mechanics of it (drag, inertia, etc etc) but it does seem odd how different RRs will read different figures!

 

I know they're all made by different companies, but I'd expect the basic machinery to be aligned/calibrated correctly.

[paul20v 0]

all stuff looses power through drivetrain its a fact of life thats why fly wheel bhp dosnt really matter its whats at the wheels ,and even more important is torque as that whats turning the wheels and thats what we all want the most bucket fulls of torque mmmm :D

[CTWG60 0]

all stuff looses power through drivetrain its a fact of life thats why fly wheel bhp dosnt really matter its whats at the wheels ,and even more important is torque as that whats turning the wheels and thats what we all want the most bucket fulls of torque mmmm :D

 

Which leads to the most important thing which is not maximum torque achieved but the area beneath the torque curve at the wheels over the engines useable rev range.

[boost monkey 0]

You should be able to find the area under the curve with some simple differentiation equations I'd think.