Taping/Knocking Noise! Foreign Objects in Oil Pump!

[Critical_Mass 10]

hello,

Changed the serpentine belt and i think it has made it slightly quieter. The old belt was actually a bit stiff compared to the new one. So just the chains and tensioners to do now, not much else left to change that would make a noise! Think im going to wait a few weeks to get them done, not using the car much at the minute as i have a work van to drive aswell. Plus this weekend im going to change the front wheel bearings, Ive had a kind of droning noise ever since i got the car, sounded like it was coming from the rear, changed both rear bearings, discs and pads and the noise was still there. Locating noises is quite deceiving sometimes. I noticed that when i steer to the left slightly the noise gets slightly louder??? its not a loud noise just a droning. Any know what this could be??

Ive got 2 new wheel bearing kits, 2 hubs, 2 ball joints and 2 top mount kits to put on at the same time. Would anyone suggest anything else to change while i was in there?? I was thinking about replacing the tie rod ends and ARB links but then thought they would cause any noises like that would they??

 

By louder do you mean droaning like sound, or clicking? Does it happen only at full lock or normal driving, what speeds - slow, general driving?

[iceviolet 0]

its a droning noise all the time. Not overly loud. Havent noticed it on full lock either. Notice it more when im going round a long left hander on the motorway where its just a constant left pressure on the steering wheel, then when strightened back up the droning gets quiter again but still there. Kind of changes tone when you turn the wheel to the left. hard to explain really. I also get a clunking from the drivers side when i turn hard left when givin it some. Sounds like the the suspensions jumping out of its location or something. This only happens when giving it a bit of pasty. Could this be the top mounts?

[Critical_Mass 10]

its a droning noise all the time. Not overly loud. Havent noticed it on full lock either. Notice it more when im going round a long left hander on the motorway where its just a constant left pressure on the steering wheel, then when strightened back up the droning gets quiter again but still there. Kind of changes tone when you turn the wheel to the left. hard to explain really. I also get a clunking from the drivers side when i turn hard left when givin it some. Sounds like the the suspensions jumping out of its location or something. This only happens when giving it a bit of pasty. Could this be the top mounts?

 

 

SOunds like a wheel bearing, maybe someone could confirm that?

[iceviolet 0]

Right, im going to be buying the timing parts. Just a few Questions im not sure on, should i just buy totally standard, original parts or:

 

1) Would i be better off getting the later style upper tensioner??the solid polymer one?

2)if i got the above, would i need the different tensioner bolt to go with it??

3)Which is the best clutch to put in?

4)Would it be worth replacing the head at the same time? i can get hold of a totally recond head with all valves and guides and cams etc cheap.

5)If i did (4) which head gasket is best? ive heard a 24v vr6 head gaskets are better?

 

Think thats about it, unless you can think of anything else? cheers

[iceviolet 0]

Hello again!

Finally had the chains, clutch and tensioner done. Needed new mounts aswell as the ones it was on were shot.

The tapping/knocking noise is still there. Hasn't made a bit of difference. The top tensioner was worn and had broken at the top, the clutch is awesome now, no squealing when setting off. The mechanic (my cousin) said that someone had been into the chains before as the bolts were rounded and some stripped. had to helicoil a few of them. Also behind the lower chain cover the block had been cracked at somepoint in its life and welded, he said it was professional job not the cheap stiching hes come across before and its perfectly fine. But he also mentioned that when he set the engine before stripping, he noticed that the sprocket on the bottom chain was a tooth out from the markings. The top chain was fine. He says that this what was causing the car to rev high on cold start up before dropping to a idle, now its perfect and also before if revved just after start up the car would splutter for a while and nearly stall. Now that doesnt happen either. The car definately feels more responsive now the chain is on in the right place. Just wondered if any of you had come across this before??

As for the tapping/knocking noise he reckons its just a little end noise or piston slap, definately on one of the first three cylinders he says. I have noticed that it does it when cold then goes away when warm but comes back when hot, over 100 oil temp, mainly on tick over. Next door neighbour had a vr golf and said his did exactly the same! dont worry about it! Would fitting an oil cooler be wise? is it an easy job to do so?

 

Cheers

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Shame the serp belt didn't cure your clattering. It sure got rid of mine!!

 

A cracked block would indicate accident damage, or an engine transferred from a car that was written off.

 

I know this from experience because I wrote off my Golf 16V many years ago and one of the casualites was the block. It cracked in the same place yours did. The huge force of the driveshaft buckling up from a side impact transferred to the gearbox / engine and the block gave way.

 

Anyway, that aside, the chains being misaligned a tooth mainly affects the sequential injection timing. It's setup so that the ECU knows and expects the cam sensor position to be 90 degrees and the injector angle to be 53 degrees. So if the chains aren't timed correctly, the fuelling cannot be correct.....but the ECU can adapt, so most people don't notice. Especially if the car was bought that way.

The VR6 can also run with one or both cams a tooth out, and again, it doesn't get noticed until the exhaust valves get burned to peices.

 

This is why when you get into a VR6 that's setup properly, the difference is night / day.

 

Oil Cooler. Yep, a 13 Row Mocal cooler is a popular addition to Corrado VR6s due to the oil temps some of them run at. Mine used to sit at 114 on the motorway at 80mph. Didn't like that so fitted a cooler. Now it's 98-100, where I like it.

 

If yours is 100 or less 90% of the time, I wouldn't bother personally.

 

Try a better quality oil. VR6s like Silkolene Pro S 10W/50 full synthetic. Have a look in the suppliers forum. Opie Oils regularly offer this forum good deals on oil.

 

Piston slap, yep common when cold, not so common when hot. Small end rattle, less common, but not unheard of. Big end rattle can affect thrashed cars that have run low on oil (oil surging mid bend kills the big ends). Again, it's not that common, but possible.

 

Tappets. Did you replace those?

[iceviolet 0]

Yes i replaced the tappets as thats what i initially thought it was. Made no difference so then moved onto the big ends and replaced all those. no difference and now the chains have been done and still no difference. It is really baffling me, im thinking it probably is piston slap or little end rattle. Could it be valve noise?? It does it on tick over and soon as you touch the accelerator it dissapears. But when driving if you accelerate hard from low revs you get a quite loud tap tap tapping noise until over about 2200 rpm then the engine sounds like it should there after.

 

I was running the car on castrol edge sport 10w-60 before, but the oil got changed when the chains were done so Im going to try the silkolene oil when i change in a few hundred miles, once the chains have got comfortable. hope it makes some difference. As for the cooler im very tempted to get one. mine sits exactly the same as yours did, about 114 on the motorway and around 100+ just normal driving. would be happier if it where more round 80 to 100. Would fitting one effect the time it takes for the oil to get to the right temperature?? like being cold for too long??

cheers

[dr_mat 0]

Broken compression rings?

[iceviolet 0]

Possibly, i think all i can do is leave it and see if it gets any worse. Ill try the silkolene oil and see if that quietens it down.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah as Matt says, a persistent tick that won't go away can sometimes be a 'hot spot' on the bore which the compression ring catches on. It's very rare on standard engines though.

 

You can also get a ticking noise from a blown exhaust manifold or a cracked manifold. The VR6 manifolds do crack. Mine had a huge crack down runner no 1.

 

Castrol Edge 10w/60, that's a good oil. I'd stick to that rather than changing, didn't realise you were using an oil that good to begin with.

[iceviolet 0]

never thought of the exhaust maifold? think ill look into that one, and keep my fingers crossed that its that!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah it's often over looked. Years ago my mate had a MK2 Golf GTI and it used to tick at idle and go away at certain revs, much like your situation. After changing the tappets, injectors (digifant, £££s from the dealer!), belts etc etc.... it turned out to be a very small split in the exhaust manifold for cylinder 1.

 

I would remove the heatshield over the exhaust manifolds and run the engine. Look for smoke, obvious cracks, soot around the manifold and head etc. Do it when cold as it will be louder and you'll smell it too.

 

May not be that, but worth checking and ticking off the list!

[iceviolet 0]

Yep, just a game of elimination at the moment! definately sounds like a similar scenario to mine with the ticking until at higher revs. If it is the manifold, would i be aswell (if im feeling flush) changing it out for one of these 6 branch stainless ones that are knocking about on ebay for around £200 or are they just cheap and nasty??

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well, if one of the OE manifolds is cracked, it would be cheaper to get a 6 branch! :D Or you could try and find some good used OE manifolds at a breakers yard.

 

In terms of performance gains, the only one I've seen that works is the SuperSprint one, but it's horrendous money and only available for LHD cars. I don't think the £200 ones take anything away as such, but don't really add anything either!

[Critical_Mass 10]

Well, if one of the OE manifolds is cracked, it would be cheaper to get a 6 branch! :D Or you could try and find some good used OE manifolds at a breakers yard.

 

In terms of performance gains, the only one I've seen that works is the SuperSprint one, but it's horrendous money and only available for LHD cars. I don't think the £200 ones take anything away as such, but don't really add anything either!

 

Cant believe how much that supersprint mani is, its as much if not more then a full Supersprint exhaust. You can get cheaper ones for £200 but as Cheesewire says they dont add or take anything away. Well saying that, i found it helped the throttle response a little.

[iceviolet 0]

Hello there, I still havent sorted this noise out yet. I left it to see if it would get any worse, and it hasnt at all, just the same. I guy at work said it might be just pinking?? I thought pinking only occurred mainly at highish revs?

The noise is only when the car is under load at the lower revs. Especially noticeable when going up hills at lowish speeds. But it also just taps when idleing sometimes, but not all the time, sometimes its quiet. When i accelerate, under load sharpish the noise starts, sounds a bit like a machine gun, ta ta ta ta ta, until about 2 and half thousand and beyond and it goes away. I can depress the pedal hard and the noise starts instantly but if i just back of the pedal its goes away? is this pinking? :confused4:

[boost monkey 0]

pinking could well sound like that, i've heard it described as a bag of marbles being shaken.

[mrbeige 0]

Could be pinking, but I doubt it. The VR has two piezoelectric (IIRC) knock sensors on the block, one on the front and one on the back and the ECU will retard the timing if you get detonation.

[Toad 0]

Could be pinking, but I doubt it. The VR has two piezoelectric (IIRC) knock sensors on the block, one on the front and one on the back and the ECU will retard the timing if you get detonation.

 

Yarp.

 

You can watch it doing it's thing with VAG COM.

 

I think you need to take the car to someone who knows the engines, Continuing to run it whilst going on some rough ideas you pick up on the internet could well result in a lot of damage. :(

[Kevin Bacon 5]

But they're slow as arse. You normally hear a bit of pinking before the ECU catches up and pulls the timing back.

 

Check in VAG-COM for any knock sensor errors as a stock engine shouldn't pink that easily. Could be running too lean, dying / dead MAF sensor perhaps..... needs taking into a decent workshop as Toad says.

[iceviolet 0]

Right then ill get it plugged into vag-com soon as i can and see what that brings up! Would a dodgy injector(s) cause this or add to it?? Just wondereing really because i have got some refurbished injectors on their way, to my knowledge the ones on the car have never been changed and have done 129000 now, so thought id get some new ones to change anyway! Thanks for the advice guys

[iceviolet 0]

Plugged it into vag-com and had no fault codes at all. My cousin mechanic had another listen and still says its either little end rattle/piston slap. Have noticed the car is quite clattery on the cold mornings now and noisier and takes a bit longer to quieten down a bit. So maybe it is just the pistons or bores. Think the plan from here is to try get hold of a short block, possibly a 2.8 and rebore it. Rebuild it in my garage and when its complete swap it over. I already have a re-con head it my garage which i was going to put on the car but not much point wasting the gaskets if the bores/pistons are fecked! So would probably be easier to build the complete engine instead of just a block and swap the whole lot. That sound like a good idea? any other options? and im on tight budget! I have been looking at pistons from america, seem a hell of a lot cheaper than over here! still expensive though! suppose, for everything else theres mastercard!

[iceviolet 0]

I am currently rebuilding a 2.8 block in my garage to eventually swap over with the engine in my corrado. Today I took the car to a mate of a mate who knows the vr6 quite well and he said that it is top end. Either a valve, guide,seal or tappet. or a combination of all, leaky guides and seals producing a low oil pressure,hence the tappet not working correctly. Its got me thinking and it fits the bill with the fact that my car has started using quite a bit of oil recently, (valve guides and seals) and also that the noise dissapears at over 3000 revs, (when enough pressure has built up). He told me to check plugs 1 and 6 and that would tell me if the bores were nackered.

I have a fully re-con head and gasket set in the garage destined for the rebuild, is it worth using up the gaskets and bolts to find out?? If it does cure it then i suppose it takes the pressure off doing the rebuild and will save me a lot of time out in the cold trying to change the engine! If it doesnt, it just means another £100 in the corrado's belly!

 

Heres pics of plugs 1 and 6, they have been in a few thousand mile, what do you reckon??

[Critical_Mass 10]

Look normal to me, especially number one.

[iceviolet 0]

Right, did a bit of work on the car yesterday and this morning. Changed the head for a re-conditioned one, fitted some re-conditioned injectors and changed the oil and plugs. It seems to have cured the tapping noise on idle, the car sounds quiter now when idling. But the noise when accelerating under load is still their, although didnt seem that bad today. The head i took off was in very good condition, still very shiny from machining and also the gasket looked quite new, so looks like the head was replaced not so long back. The bores looked fine to me, i didnt have my bore mics with me to measure them but i could still see the honing marks on the bores. The only thing i noticed about the bores was that they had a lot of black "crud" around the top, on the lead-in,and also the pistons had like a yellowish crap on them too. What could this be??

But all in all was a worthwhile effort, even in the cold and wind. Has quietened the engine slightly, seems a bit more responsive aswell somehow and also was good experience for me. My first head gasket!

 

Heres a few pics: