Which spark plugs for modded G60 and Rallye map sensor ?

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Alright folks,

 

Was just reading on another forum about which spark-plugs to use in a G60. I know the standard ones are WR6DPO's but the post on the other forum stated that WR6DPO's should only be used up to about 200-220 BHP then WR5DPOs for 230-240 BHP, then WR4DPO's for over 250 BHP ? Could anyone confirm if this is correct ?

 

Also was having a conversation with a guy online about G60 tuning and he said one of the limits on G60 tuning is the map sensor which only works up to 1 bar then bleeds off boost. He went on to say that this can be cured by sourcing and installing either a Rallye G60 ECU or the actual 2.5Kpa map sensor from a Rallye ECU as this is able to cope wth boost up to 1.5 bar ?

 

Anyone have any thought on this, Darren / W3RKD what are your views on this ?

 

Cheers.

[Riley 0]

Very true about the map sensor. Although i wouldn't say the g40 plugs are essential...they are used as an 'upgrade' as they run colder.

 

The map sensor thing is a bit silly really...Its fine to be able to read and then map for more boost.But ideally its better to make use/get rid of the boost thats already there by means of better flow which = more power.

 

I suppose expense comes into it though, both ways would yield power, (map for more boost vs use more boost) but both will cost differently, and hit their limits at different stages.

 

Neil.

[sparks 0]

i agree getting an engine to flow /use the avalible boost is better than making more boost to over come the restrictions of your head intercooler ect

plus the charger will always last longer

 

stu ..

[dirtytorque 0]

Very true about the map sensor. Although i wouldn't say the g40 plugs are essential...they are used as an 'upgrade' as they run colder.

 

The map sensor thing is a bit silly really...Its fine to be able to read and then map for more boost.But ideally its better to make use/get rid of the boost thats already there by means of better flow which = more power.

 

 

Neil.

:salute:

[CTWG60 0]

Yep I've studied this. When the Charger produces around 1 bar the ECU holds the boost level just below 1 bar via the ISV so as to be able to fuel correctly. The best way to get round this restriction is to make sure the engine makes use of the boost so it doesn't limit the engines potential.

[g60karmann 0]

Sorry I might be missing the implication of what people are suggesting here. So rather than porting the charger, going for a smaller pulley, removing the ISV (i.e. creating more boost), it is better to work on the thorttle body, manifolds, cam and head? I thought that was kind of a given, making the most of the boost? But CNC, bigger valve, ported heads are expensive ok fitting a cam, porting the throttle body and the manifolds is cheap and easy but wont give anywhere near as much as full on head work. So are people saying it is pointless to use a Rallye 2.5kpa map sensor or just do all the other work first?

[dirtytorque 0]

No.What we are saying is once you have upped the boost by using a smaller pulley your next challenge its to get that boost into your engine where it will do the most good.

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Surely if you fit an ISV reroute (to stop the ISV bleeding boost at 1 bar) or a Rallye / other uprated map sensor (I am right in thinking that there would be no point fitting both, as they both effectively do the same job by stopping bleeding boost over 1 bar ?) any boost over and above 1 bar and below 1.5 bar will be used by the engine anyways as not going anywhere else ?

 

Ok it might not be being used efficiently, but if people are making more than 1 bar with the mods they have, surely fitting the uprated map sensor would allow them to make more power than if the engine was saying "naw, too much boost cap'n" and bleeding it off ?

 

And as far as these plugs go, if I am running 245 BHP (with potential for more) on my G60 is is worthwhile for me to use the uprated / colder plugs, and if so which ones, the WR5DPO's or the WR4DP0's ?

[iow_corrado_g60 0]

the 5's and W4DPO'S run better with higher bhp, as run colder or have a high temp rating cant remember which!

 

edit: sorry didnt read this properly before what you say regarding the g60 rallye ecu is a 100% right mike managed to get hold of one when he was running his 250+bhp g60 i think you'll struggle to get much more than 265 out of the g thou from the 8v anyhow, but also the rallye ecu is nion imposssible to find for a reasonable price! there rare are rocking horse.....

 

but it definately allows more boost into the engine for combustion but at the same time the 8v doesn't flow well anyway if your this far along going 16v|G60 for 280+ is always an option

[CTWG60 0]

Stopping the ISV bleeding the boost means the ECU can't map the fuel above 1 bar as it can only measure 1.2 bar IIRC. Finding a Rallye ECU with a 2.5kpa map going to be difficult as they are rare, so you'll have to install an aftermarket 2.5kpa sensor.

 

Having an unknown pressure of air in the inlet is not advisable unless your feeling lucky! :D Also by blocking the ISV from bleeding boost if you do get knock and and the ECU's retardation of timing doesn't stop it you will be in trouble when it tries to bleed off the boost!

 

I'd sort out the drivetrain setup before I started planning mods around the figure of 245bhp.

[Riley 0]

Surely if you fit an ISV reroute (to stop the ISV bleeding boost at 1 bar) or a Rallye / other uprated map sensor (I am right in thinking that there would be no point fitting both, as they both effectively do the same job by stopping bleeding boost over 1 bar ?) any boost over and above 1 bar and below 1.5 bar will be used by the engine anyways as not going anywhere else ?

 

They are both different...

 

The isv will bleed off at around 0.8bar assuming standard set up, isv reroutes normally put the boost back in after the c/o pot so its not being read. If the induction strokes do manage to pull in more boost than standard, it will be unmetered and therefore not being fuelled for. And its also pointless in a way as it will keep recuirculating under constant bleed anyway.

 

It may struggle to bleed off a lot of boost, and this is where the induction strokes may pull more in, but nt fuelled for.

 

With a 250kpa map sensor, it will at least allow you to meter/fuel for the extra boost you are making whether its via smaller pully, ported charger etc.

It will give you more room for mapping a chip, and obviously a littler more power, but you will hit a restriction of flow at some stage that makes having more boost pointless.

 

Its definately worth while but id say, maximise flow first through porting/polishing/head/cam, then go 250kpa to allow more precise fueling/mapping of a chip.

 

Thats how i understand it anyway. :)

 

Neil.

[BigTartanJudge 0]

So running the colder plugs with my power output is a good idea and either use an ISV reroute OR use a higher-rated map sensor not both ? Which ones are better, the W5's or W4's, what are they from and where can I get them from ? I take it I can just buy an aftermarket or 2.5kPa map sensor from another car (or does it have to be from a specific car or even VW ?) and fit it to my ECU before I have the car finally mapped ?

 

Riley, I have already taken the head, cam, intake manifold+exhaust manifold as far as I can without going for the CNC-head (tbh, because I am not willing to spend £2000 on just a head+fitting it).

 

CTWG60, as far as drivetrain goes, I have a newly rebuilt gearbox with VR / G60 combo ratios, Peloquin ATB diff., helix VR6 clutch and lightened / balanced flywheel together with weighted / shortened gear-shifter waiting to be fitted, so this should sort out any drivetrain issues I would have thought.

[Riley 0]

So running the colder plugs with my power output is a good idea and either use an ISV reroute OR use a higher-rated map sensor not both ?

I take it I can just buy an aftermarket or 2.5kPa map sensor from another car (or does it have to be from a specific car or even VW ?) and fit it to my ECU before I have the car finally mapped ?

 

Riley, I have already taken the head, cam, intake manifold+exhaust manifold as far as I can without going for the CNC-head (tbh, because I am not willing to spend £2000 on just a head+fitting it).

 

Aye, i know exactly what you are saying there mate...Pricey stuff eh.

 

I wouldn't recommend the isv reroute, its just a bad idea imo. With your spec which sounds cracking by the way, and if you are happy with your flow through the whole inlet/outlet system, i guess its a question of...how much boost are you making?

 

If its still hitting 0.8bar and above then the map sensor is worth changing before mapping. But if it is all flowing well, then you may be seeing a lower boost reading which won't bleed off anyway...

 

I believe only some rallye's had the 250kpa, and also some passat b3.

Colder plugs would be good, g40 ones...whichever they are.

 

Neil.

[W3RKD 0]

Yep I've studied this. When the Charger produces around 1 bar the ECU holds the boost level just below 1 bar via the ISV so as to be able to fuel correctly. The best way to get round this restriction is to make sure the engine makes use of the boost so it doesn't limit the engines potential.

 

BINGO

[BigTartanJudge 0]

As I already stated above, I have already taken my head, cam, intake manifold+exhaust manifold as far as I can without going for the CNC-head (tbh, because I am not willing to spend £2000 on aother head+fitting it) to breathe more efficiently. Hence, I was asking if fitting the higher rated map sensor was a good idea since the car will not bleed off boost if my current set-up produces in excess of 0.8-1.0bar. So hopefully now I have had this question answered.

 

Short of fitting the CNC head or going for a capacity increase (there's another £2000 min.), I don't think there is any other mods I can really do.

[sparks 0]

ever thought of N.o.S ????

 

 

i know a couple of people on here are trying it ?

 

stu..

[CTWG60 0]

http://www.g-laderseite.de/eshop/produc ... 1bea89d8c3

[flusted 0]

So how much boost you making? My 8v made 12psi at 6k with the 65mm with everything flowed