Tie/track rod ends - arghh!

[aclwalker 3]

I have spent today replacing a front wheel bearing and have hit problems with the reassembly stage.

 

Firstly, I was wanting to replace the tie rod end, but couldn't free the locknut off. After having good weather at the start of the week, today has decided to try my patience, by raining at every opportunity, and blowing rust into my face at every turn.

 

So, as the tie rod end was not burst, I decided to reassemble and leave that for better weather. But I now have the problem that the nut to attach the tie rod to the steering knuckle was simply spinning round and round, taking the bolt part of the tie rod with it. I'm guessing that the tie rod is worn if this bit is spinning round.

 

So, I can't get the nut back on, so I'm being forced to replace the tie rod end.

 

Any ideas on how to remove the locknut for the tie rod end?

 

Also, I noticed on another post, somebody suggesting to just replace the whole tie rod right up to the rack, and that these rods including ends were quite cheap from vwspares.co.uk.

 

However, I see on Bentley that it says that the tie rods must not be removed from the steering rack when it is in situ.

 

Is this really true? Is Bentley being over cautious here?

 

Also, I'm concerned that even if I get the locknut off, that the tie rod end itself will be bonded on to the tie rod and I won't be able to separate the two, hence the question above about replacing the entire rod including end.

 

The tie rod end itself has a squared off part for you to grip it while attempting to loosen the locknut. Is there such a squared off part on the tie rod itself? I couldn't see a section like this.

 

Any advice greatly appreciated, as this problem has really deflated me after getting on well with the bearing.

[Chris 0]

get some 18" or large stilsons, put the jaws around the tie rod body then use a spanner and hammer to shock the control arm nut back. if youve locked the stilsons around it properly, that tie rod will not move. you may require a helping hand from someone to hold something.

 

tie rod ends are cheap, well worth replacing them both :)

 

give it some stick mate :bad-words:

[aclwalker 3]

get some 18" or large stilsons, put the jaws around the tie rod body then use a spanner and hammer to shock the control arm nut back. if youve locked the stilsons around it properly, that tie rod will not move. you may require a helping hand from someone to hold something.

 

tie rod ends are cheap, well worth replacing them both :)

 

give it some stick mate :bad-words:

Thanks for that. I'll give it a shot tomorrow, assuming the weather holds up.

 

I've also found a suggestion to hit opposite sides of the locknut with two hammers at the same time, to shock the corrosion.

 

I really need to get this tie rod replaced now, because I can't even reassemble the old one because the nut is just gripping the threaded stem and spinning it round!

 

If the tie rod end had a hex recess, like the balljoint, then it would be possible to tighten it back up while preventing the stem from turning with an allen key or similar.

[paddy26 3]

Hi,

If it is the bolt that keeps spinning with the nut the easiest way to tighten it is to get a prybar or level and apply force down on top of the tie rod end. You should get another person to catch one end of the prybar under the chassis and then push down on the other end of the prybar to apply the pressure to the top of the track rod end while you try to tighten the nut. You will probably need to apply a lot of pressure to the tie rod end.

 

To remove the tie rod from the rack just do what r4-ge said. You can let the stilson hit up against the underneath of the car and then all you have to worry about then is the spanner on the nut. If you can't loosen it this way you will need to heat it up using a gas torch. Just be careful with the WD40 and the flame!

 

Hope this helps.

Paddy

[Chris 0]

heat is a good idea as paddy said

[aclwalker 3]

Hi,

If it is the bolt that keeps spinning with the nut the easiest way to tighten it is to get a prybar or level and apply force down on top of the tie rod end. You should get another person to catch one end of the prybar under the chassis and then push down on the other end of the prybar to apply the pressure to the top of the track rod end while you try to tighten the nut. You will probably need to apply a lot of pressure to the tie rod end.

 

To remove the tie rod from the rack just do what r4-ge said. You can let the stilson hit up against the underneath of the car and then all you have to worry about then is the spanner on the nut. If you can't loosen it this way you will need to heat it up using a gas torch. Just be careful with the WD40 and the flame!

 

Hope this helps.

Paddy

Cheers, yeah. I'm thinking that maybe some sort of G-clamp to compress the tie-rod end back into the wheel bearing housing might give enough friction to allow me to tighten it back up.

 

With the cold and rain just today (and probably tomorrow), I think I'd prefer to just connect it back up as the tie-rod end is actually OK just now. I could do then tackle replacing them in the summer.

[aclwalker 3]

heat is a good idea as paddy said

Are butane blow-torches hot enough? Should I be trying to just heat the locknut?

[Chris 0]

heat is a good idea as paddy said

Are butane blow-torches hot enough? Should I be trying to just heat the locknut?

 

should be....propane or map gas will definately do the trick. its how i did mine

 

and yes around the nut

[davidwort 0]

new track rods is def the way to go, removed loads of play from my steering

perfectly OK to do with the rack in place but getting onto it is a bugger because of limited access, you need to get a big old spanner on the hex/flats of the inner joint of the track rod onto the rack, I dropped the subframe slightly to do it which helped with access but the rack and subframe moves about a bit then when you try to undo the rods. All done now though and very glad I did, whack loads of copperslip onto the track rod end adjusters to help with any future adjustment

I got sick of attempting to free them off with a blow torch(oxy/acet welding jobby too!), eventually they got so bad even that barely gave any movement, but they were 18yrs old :)

[aclwalker 3]

new track rods is def the way to go, removed loads of play from my steering

perfectly OK to do with the rack in place but getting onto it is a bugger because of limited access, you need to get a big old spanner on the hex/flats of the inner joint of the track rod onto the rack, I dropped the subframe slightly to do it which helped with access but the rack and subframe moves about a bit then when you try to undo the rods. All done now though and very glad I did, whack loads of copperslip onto the track rod end adjusters to help with any future adjustment

I got sick of attempting to free them off with a blow torch(oxy/acet welding jobby too!), eventually they got so bad even that barely gave any movement, but they were 18yrs old :)

Having looked carefully at Bentley, I think the reason why it says you have to remove the tie rods with the rack OFF the car is because you have to grip the part of the rack that the tie rod screws in to in a vice.

 

If you do it in-situ, then it's impossible to grab this bit and you are effectively twisting the rack part (i.e. the toothed bar) inside the housing. By holding the toothed bar in a vice, you aren't doing this twisting.

 

The tie rod is supposed to be torqued to 70 Nm (IIRC) and also a locking compound used, so I guess you could cause damage by just unscrewing without holding the toothed bar.

 

Have you experienced any problems with the steering since?

 

Did you use a locking compound?

 

Cheers.

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

pretty sure this would work well...

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165469

 

if you used it to put pressure onto the top of the TRE so you can undo the nut easily then donk it with a hammer and it should pop out. otherwise use the same tool to seperate it, or even better use one of these...

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165469

 

and put it between the TRE and the carrier housing and it'll deffo pop out....

 

lube and heat never go amiss either, but watch out you dont frazzle your CV boots or anything!

[aclwalker 3]

pretty sure this would work well...

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165469

 

if you used it to put pressure onto the top of the TRE so you can undo the nut easily then donk it with a hammer and it should pop out. otherwise use the same tool to seperate it, or even better use one of these...

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165469

 

and put it between the TRE and the carrier housing and it'll deffo pop out....

 

lube and heat never go amiss either, but watch out you dont frazzle your CV boots or anything!

I got THAT nut off easily! It's the locknut on the rod itself that I can't get off. And I also now can't get THAT nut back on now, because the pin just spins.

 

But your idea of turning the balljoint separator upside down to apply pressure in the opposite direction might actually work for me to get that nut back on if I give up on replacing the tie rod end until the better weather.

[davidwort 0]

Having looked carefully at Bentley, I think the reason why it says you have to remove the tie rods with the rack OFF the car is because you have to grip the part of the rack that the tie rod screws in to in a vice.

 

I see what you are saying, that's got to be the perfect way of doing it, but we got it undone OK, and didn't over-torque the new one in and I did use threadlock.

No troubles though, in reality I think you'd have to be very unlucky to damage the rack itself, I think we put heat on the inner track rod joint to persaude the old joints to come away from the rack too, it's a bit heath-robinson but we had to hold the rack with a pair of HUGE water-pump plier type things to unscrew the track rods as it was swinging on the dropped subframe (but the frame still attached to the wishbones so it only dropped about 20cm)

It's superb now though, my final two jobs to get my steering perfect, the new inner track rod joints and a fixed position steering column to take the worn height adjuster out of the equation, it's so responsive and precise now :D