Urgent help! 4 to 5 stud conversion

[daves16v 1]

I thought I’d done all my homework before I started this conversion but I’ve hit a major problem.

 

I’ve got all the parts including 288mm discs and calipers. The problem is that the 4 stud discs have a different offset in terms of the actual pad surface to the hub mating face as opposed to the VR set-up. It's about 10mm different

 

Now this means that whatever 5 stud disc I use as part of my 5 stud conversion the caliper carrier is about 10mm away from the disc.

 

Yes I could use a 280mm G60 disc and re-drill to suit 5 stud but I won’t do that for safety reasons.

 

So what I need is a 5 stud bearing carrier/hub that has the ball joint centrally positioned to match my 4 stud wishbones. The VR bearing carrier/hub has the ball joint offset to suit VR wishbones so that’s a no go solution.

 

Is there such an item maybe off an early Mk3 Golf GTI with 5 studs or maybe a Passat 5 stud?

 

I’ve already installed new bearings and the 5 stud hubs into my 16v bearing carriers so I’ve already started to lose money.

 

I could go down the complete VR subframe/wishbone route but that’s a little more costly and time consuming as I’ve got a mechanic friend helping me and I’ve already used up most of his day today.

 

The bummer is that I’ve done the 5 stud rears first so I'm reluctant to go back to 4 stud.

 

Any help is very much appreciated as I’m feeling lower than low about the whole thing and also the car is stuck on my mates drive with it’s nose on bricks.

 

Thanks

Dave

[Toad 0]

Is the carrier too close to too far away from the hub? Could you either make a spacer up or machine both parts to make them fit?

[daves16v 1]

The carrier would need to move toward the disc meaning machining both surfaces but I really don't want to go down that route, again for safety reasons. If it were the other way then yes I would space it out.

 

The VR bearing carrier would do the job but it's the ball joint that's wrong. Ideally I need a VR breaing carrier with the ball joint central.

[Toad 0]

Or a 288 disk with a better offset? Or a carrier with a better offset?

 

Some Audis used 288 disks, I wonder if the carriers they used would be better? I have a carrier for an Audi 100 on my floor, I but I think it's a similar design to the Mk3 golf carrier, and only takes a narrow unventilated disk.

 

Sorry none of these things are useful, I'm just trying to think of a way round your issue...

[daves16v 1]

Or a 288 disk with a better offset? Or a carrier with a better offset?

 

Yes that would work too. Thanks for your replies Tom.

[daves16v 1]

Just been out to my Passat and the front discs are 288 with a bigger offset then the 288's I have although they are 5x112. So could the Golk MK4 288's or Audi TT's be any better as they are 5x100?

[daves16v 1]

Another thought - does the early Golf MK3 GTI use 5 studs that have a disc offset as per the 4 stud? - see below, the second one is a front on shot but looks like it might have the correct offset? The first one might just be a library photo.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Golf-Gti-2-0-16v- ... 286.c0.m14

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-GOLF-MK3-GTI-2 ... 286.c0.m14

[Toad 0]

I think they might fit. Are you going to go back to 280mm calipers and carriers?

 

I literally just binned a set of 280mm 5 stud disks that you could have tried.... :(

[Toad 0]

How about redrilling the Passat 5 x 112 288s if the offset is correct?

[daves16v 1]

I think they might fit. Are you going to go back to 280mm calipers and carriers?

 

I literally just binned a set of 280mm 5 stud disks that you could have tried.... :(

 

If the 280's get me back on the road quickly then that's what I'll do but in the long run I still want to go 288.

 

Not sure if the Passat disk offset is correct but it looks alot closer, modifying disks is not something I'm going to do tho.

 

The most important thing for me to do right now is get the car off my mates drive and back home. To do this I can get hold of a pair of used G60 disks and re-drill just to get me the 2 miles back home.

 

I think he can stand a week with the car on his drive, gives me time to find the correct disks in either 280 or 288.

[daves16v 1]

Just spoke to my mate and he's ok to leave the car on his drive for a while.

 

Been doing some searching and found this -

 

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=58675&p=692636&hilit=5+stud+conversion#p692636

 

I need to check part numbers but it maybe that early VR Passat 5x100 discs might fit.

[mikkijayne 0]

Whats wrong with re-drilling the G60 disks? The disk is clamped to the hub by the wheel, not the bolts, so a few surplus holes isn't going to matter. Audi disks come with 10 holes drilled in them as standard.

 

I have heard mentioned that there is a New Beetle 5-stud disk that has the right offset for the G60 spindle, but I've never found it.

[daves16v 1]

Whats wrong with re-drilling the G60 disks? The disk is clamped to the hub by the wheel, not the bolts, so a few surplus holes isn't going to matter. Audi disks come with 10 holes drilled in them as standard.

 

I have heard mentioned that there is a New Beetle 5-stud disk that has the right offset for the G60 spindle, but I've never found it.

 

If re-drilled disks were to break and your car spun out of control and hit someone on the pavement I doubt you would be covered by insurance and depending on the damage caused to human life you may end up behind bars. Worst case granted but I don't think it's worth the risk so I won't do it.

 

I've found the right disks now so it's all good. I will post up details when it's all done.

[Jim 2]

Awesome. An overview of the process would be excellent mate.. been wanting to do a 5x100 conversion on mine since forever to put it on VR speedlines :)

[daves16v 1]

Awesome. An overview of the process would be excellent mate.. been wanting to do a 5x100 conversion on mine since forever to put it on VR speedlines :)

 

Yep sure thing. I've stuck with a 5 spoke design but I'll keep it under wraps till it's all done, it's nothing special and it's been done before but it suits the Rado.

 

Jim I thought you were going for a VR?

[Jim 2]

I am eventually but in an ideal world I'll keep my valver too :)

 

Looking forward to seeing the finished article, Dave :)

[carpoid 0]

 

I've found the right disks now so it's all good. I will post up details when it's all done.

 

Please do post up details, because i'm using redrilled G60 discs and i'm not all that keen on it, although i've never heard any horror stories about it, i'd rather have discs that will fit. Not only do you have to redrill them to 5x100 but you have to shave some off the insides to get them to fit over the VR hubs that are about 7mm bigger in diameter.

 

Does your car have ABS Dave?

[Jim 2]

His is a late valver - they got ABS as standard, so unless it's been hacked out, it should have it :)

[carpoid 0]

Cool thanks Jim, i wonder if he's also realised that the VR ABS rings are different also, they are 10 mm or so thinner. They come fixed on to the hub with 3 self tappers , and have clearance holes in them for where the wheel bolts come through the back of the hub. The only way i could think of keeping my ABS rings was to fit the G60 rings on the VR hubs, mark through the wheel bolt holes with a permanent marker pen then drill them/grind them out to clear the wheel bolts....

 

Imported Photos 00054.JPG[/attachment:18w9o7x9]

 

Hope some of that helps, i thought i'd done my research well too till i found that one!

[mikkijayne 0]

Now that is interesting. I wasn't aware of that difference, but then none of mine have ABS yet so I have nothing to compare.

 

The ABS rings on my new VR6 hubs are held on by M6 countersunk screws (the same type as the disk is held on with), so it would be simple enough to make some 10mm spacers and fit them on with longer screws. I will have to do that for the V8, as I'm using VR6 hubs in 16V spindles.

[daves16v 1]

I do have ABS. I bought new 4 stud rings from the dealer, modified and repainted them. Fit like a glove.

 

Another problem I've found and to be honest I did read about it and had my suspicions is that the VR 5 stud hub outside diameter is indeed 6mm bigger so the new disks I bought didn't fit. This put a right downer on things as I've already pressed the hubs into new bearings, luckily I've been able to turn the hubs down to the 4 stud hub size whilst still in the bearing carrier. There is still plenty of meat left between bolt hole and the edge of the hub. Then it occured to me that there must be the right size 5 stud hub out there to fit the disks anyway so I know VW must have done this on the early VR Passat which the disks are for.

 

So to summerise the only thing I've had to modify so far is the hubs and ABS rings. I'll guess and say there are hubs already out there to suit the disks I have, they may even have the 4 stud splines in them if that's what the early Passat VR used, i,e non plus suspension. So you may not even need the VR outer CV's.

 

I'll post up as much detail as I can once I get it all done and hopefully find no more hurdles to get over. I wouldn't want anyone else going through this half blind as I have - it's been a little stressful. To be honest I've thought about throwing in the towel a few times.

[Supercharged 2]

Ah... I just assumed you'd either re-drilled or used the Eurospec conversion hubs.... I didn't think the 16V wheel bearings and CV's actually fitted the VR hubs?

 

Glad you are getting it sorted though with those VR6 Type 35 discs

[mikkijayne 0]

I'll guess and say there are hubs already out there to suit the disks I have, they may even have the 4 stud splines in them if that's what the early Passat VR used, i,e non plus suspension. So you may not even need the VR outer CV's.

 

I just checked Etka and the early Passat VR6 has the same outer CVs as the Corrado VR6, so it looks like you do still need to swap them.

 

Which calipers and carriers are you using with this? Presumably the VR6 ones to fit a 288mm disk?

[daves16v 1]

Ah... I just assumed you'd either re-drilled or used the Eurospec conversion hubs.... I didn't think the 16V wheel bearings and CV's actually fitted the VR hubs?

 

Glad you are getting it sorted though with those VR6 Type 35 discs

 

The 16v CV's don't fit the VR hub but the 16v bearings do. The VR hub height and diameter (40mm bearing) are the same as the 16v. They've gone together ok so far, oh crap I've just tempted fate :lol:

 

I'll guess and say there are hubs already out there to suit the disks I have, they may even have the 4 stud splines in them if that's what the early Passat VR used, i,e non plus suspension. So you may not even need the VR outer CV's.

 

I just checked Etka and the early Passat VR6 has the same outer CVs as the Corrado VR6, so it looks like you do still need to swap them.

 

Which calipers and carriers are you using with this? Presumably the VR6 ones to fit a 288mm disk?

 

My intention was to use 288's, I had bought the calipers, disks and pads but the disk offset is not available to suit the 16v bearing carriers, at least I haven't found any. So Im using VR calipers and carriers and 280 disks, there isn't any other option if you want to go 5x100, not that I know of anyway.

[carpoid 0]

So you're using early VR6 Passat hubs right?