Suspension Suprise!!

[Ice White Socks 0]

Hey,

 

Spent this morning getting four new tyres as the car seemed to have been tracked by Stevie Wonder and had bad inner tyre wear on the fronts.

 

As the car was up on the ramps I noticed the lower rear suspension strut bolt has snapped clean in two as per the picture- this was on a brand new set of VV1's fitted only 1000 miles ago.

 

The tyres fitters sorted it all out and checked the other bolt- that too was on its last legs.

 

I spoke to the garage that fitted it (PSI)- they confirmed the bolts were re-used from the old suspension as they aren't included with the kit and so "thats just the way it is" even though they seemed to overtorqued to within an inch of their lives . I drive this car fast and this kinda thing could easily have caused me a nasty accident

 

I think a few of you guys have had coilies fitted by PSI... might be something to check..

 

Cheers

[Jim 2]

That's really quite scary and I think always proves the lessons I've had drilled into me (after a few years of just re-using old bolts, etc!) about just buying all new bolts and bits whenever this kind of job is done.. those bolts cost no more than a couple of quid from VW and it gives you a bit of peace of mind.

 

Glad you picked it up in the nick of time.

[coullstar 0]

Mmmm dont talk to me about PSI. They seemed quite good but Im not impressed by a lot of the work that was done on my car now.

 

Pretty sure it evens states in Bently manual to renew these.

[Toad 0]

That's a bit poo.

 

If I cocked that up I'd be a little bit annoyed, if I'd paid someone to do it I'd be pretty upset.

 

TBH, personally I'd probably reuse that bolt unless it looked unpleasant, I think part of the issue is people going nuts when tightening fixings up.

[coullstar 0]

If they were snapped then its a good chance the were over torqued putting undue stress on them. Where exactly were they snapped?

[Ice White Socks 0]

The bolts had snapped on the threads just short of the bolt - the other bolt was the same- some of the the threads had stretched to almost twice their normal length!

 

The car is at my parents where it limped along on some old non-tensile bolts the garage had lying around and the bolts in the boot- I'll get the picture of the bolts up soon.

 

Bearing in mind the garage doesn't want to know- where can I actually go with this? Trading standards? A Pistonheads thread!!

 

Cheers

[Rob_B 0]

Give trading standards a ring, at least u know where u stand then. Poor workmanship or neglegence would be taken seriously. You say psi don't wanna know? That's not on if it's true

[Yandards 0]

Sounds like a massive overtorque given the thread stretch and the failure point.

 

Bloody airguns strike again.

 

Although the level of torque required to get those bolts to do that is quite scary given they are designed for 70 Nm of torque and are pretty heavy duty bolts.

[Toad 0]

They should be done up with weight on the wheels shouldn't they? In that case you should not be able to fit an air gun onto the bolt.

 

They must have been done to a ridiculous torque if they have been pulled apart, unless there is an issue with the bolts themselves...

[Yandards 0]

They should be done up with weight on the wheels shouldn't they? In that case you should not be able to fit an air gun onto the bolt.

 

They must have been done to a ridiculous torque if they have been pulled apart, unless there is an issue with the bolts themselves...

 

Er no, the vw workshop manual states the torque figure of 70Nm should be applied with no load on the suspension.

[Toad 0]

Really? I thought it was supposed to be loaded to prevent any twisting on the bush at the end of the shock?

 

Made my life far more awkward on the VR.

[Yandards 0]

Really? I thought it was supposed to be loaded to prevent any twisting on the bush at the end of the shock?

 

Made my life far more awkward on the VR.

 

*Checks book* :epicfail:

 

The exact comment is 'axle beam in horiztonal position unladen weight state'

 

Unladen weight condition is the following:

 

Empty fuel tank

Spare wheel removed

Tools and jack removed

 

When you get the car 4 wheel aligned it should be in that state too.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Good thing you spotted that,but it would have been making allot of noise for a while right? :scratch:

 

Give trading standards a ring, at least u know where u stand then. Poor workmanship or neglegence would be taken seriously. You say psi don't wanna know? That's not on if it's true

 

Bolts snapp all the time,plus his car has been fitted with non standard items,so you dont have much to stand on......

 

Bloody airguns strike again.

 

You cant get an air gun in there,only air ratchet at the most ,but either way that bolt has been over tightend

,but by who? and how many times has that bolt been in and out of the vehicles life? :shrug:

[Ice White Socks 0]

Hi James- hope your OK!.

 

The car doesn't get used much nowadays but the car never made a sound.

 

I am thinking bolt was finished off by it going up on the ramp (I guess the weight of the whole beam will have been hanging on those two bolts).

 

As far as non-standard items go- If I was fitting these myself I would have used new bolts (and in fact I am sure you would too). The VW workshop manual states new bolts should be used and I would expect any garage to use new bolts as well (when you see the condition of the bolts you'll probably agree).

 

But yes that what all this will boil down too- I expect new bolts to have been used and thats all there is too it.

 

Cheers

[Rob_B 0]

Give trading standards a ring, at least u know where u stand then. Poor workmanship or neglegence would be taken seriously. You say psi don't wanna know? That's not on if it's true

 

Bolts snapp all the time,plus his car has been fitted with non standard items,so you dont have much to stand on......:[/quote:274y7a2x]

 

that is true. its a tough one. however, you have paid them to do a job, and it sounds like its not been done poorly and not up to standard in my opinion.

if you specifically said dont use new bolts then fair enough, but they should have used new ones really. over tightening them is poor workmanship in my opinion again.

 

if an accident had happened and they traced it back to a sheered bolt then im sure there would be consequences

i also think people would have a different opinion if it had been a mother and child in the car, not a grown man

 

if you raise the issue with trading standards then it will be given a case and at least you have a reference to it.

thats my 2p worth anyway for what its worth

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Hi James- hope your OK!.

 

The car doesn't get used much nowadays but the car never made a sound.

 

I am thinking bolt was finished off by it going up on the ramp (I guess the weight of the whole beam will have been hanging on those two bolts).

 

As far as non-standard items go- If I was fitting these myself I would have used new bolts (and in fact I am sure you would too). The VW workshop manual states new bolts should be used and I would expect any garage to use new bolts as well (when you see the condition of the bolts you'll probably agree).

 

But yes that what all this will boil down too- I expect new bolts to have been used and thats all there is too it.

 

Cheers

 

 

Yea im good Mike,you still working all over the place :lol:

 

As for new bolts,most garages dont use new bolts unless you asked for them and they will not be checking any user guides on fitting instructions im sure on that one :ignore:

 

Also they would have to pre order the bolts as they would not have had them on the shelf,but its happend now and you found it before it rubbed a hole in your fuel tank!

 

that is true. its a tough one. however, you have paid them to do a job, and it sounds like its not been done poorly and not up to standard in my opinion.

if you specifically said dont use new bolts then fair enough, but they should have used new ones really. over tightening them is poor workmanship in my opinion again.

 

if an accident had happened and they traced it back to a sheered bolt then im sure there would be consequences

i also think people would have a different opinion if it had been a mother and child in the car, not a grown man

 

if you raise the issue with trading standards then it will be given a case and at least you have a reference to it.

thats my 2p worth anyway for what its worth

 

Ive got no problems with calling trading standards but for the price of a bolt its sometimes easier just to replace mate when no harm was done. also just my 2p :wink:

[Ice White Socks 0]

Yes I think this will go to trading standards in the first instance- The problem comes is that I haven't really got much choice but to replace all the suspension bolts now with new ones so I'll be recovering these costs if I am advised that this could be possible.

 

Its with the garage now as apparently a phone conversation wasn't enough.

 

The problem is they seem good guys- so much so I overlooked the fact that it came back with the lowest trip MPG on it I have ever seen (6 miles at 14mpg).... and I can stand the new tyres I had to pay for due to the poor tracking.... but this is unfortunately 'unoverlookable'- I could have been killed!

[Jon_vr6 1]

Hi mate feel bad because i recommended PSI to you but my suspension bolts are holding up fine just had a quick check and mine have been on for 7-8K miles! Have you spoke to PSI im sure if you explained the problem etc they will sort you out, i know they should have done the work properly to start with but mistakes do happen and you hear loads of horror stories from all the top garages in the UK!

 

Jon

[Ice White Socks 0]

Hey Jon,

 

No don't feel bad- the KW V1's are really cool and PSI are obviously a proper outfit- I would have recommended them myself

 

One thing I will say is the Geo on my car was terrible (I could feel it straightaway)- the car was checked on the 4 wheel alignment machine when it went in for new tyres and once they had stopped laughing they said it needed redoing big time (this was obvious from the tyre wear as well)- but tbh the only aligment that ever felt right was one Stealth did for me so the plan was for it go there later this week after the new tyres were fitted- but I'll put this on hold until I get some proper bolts back on!

 

Did you take the bolts off btw to check? They would only have looked like the one in the picture if they had actually snapped? The bolt on the other side appeared fine but was actually ready to snap at any time?

 

Cheers

[Ice White Socks 0]

btw Jon I see your in Stockport- there are some quite good meets up the A6 in Buxton/Chapel (peakvagclub)- you should come along :)

[Jon_vr6 1]

Yeah will look into it mate hope you get it sorted mate

 

And every other weekend the car does a 160mile trek to nottingham and back with no probs atall so if a bolt was going to snap it would have done so by now!

 

Jon

[Toad 0]

*Checks book* :epicfail:

 

The exact comment is 'axle beam in horiztonal position unladen weight state'

 

Unladen weight condition is the following:

 

Empty fuel tank

Spare wheel removed

Tools and jack removed

 

When you get the car 4 wheel aligned it should be in that state too.

 

Fair enough. :)

[tedman 0]

Mmmm dont talk to me about PSI. They seemed quite good but Im not impressed by a lot of the work that was done on my car now.

 

x2 :mad2:

[Ice White Socks 0]

Update- got a call from Andy this morning who seemed keen to put things right and find out what happened with the bolts. They are ordering some bolts in and coming to fit them to the car at my home which saves me a lot of aggro in getting them fitted myself- then they'll take the bolts back and see whats happened.

 

Whilst I still think the bolts were too battered to be really re-used- he did make the fair comment that maybe these weren't the original bolts and so might not have been fit for purpose from the start (although they lasted 55k on the last set of suspension so who knows).

 

The important think is they have been in touch and agreed to put it right- I'll keep you posted! Cheers for all your helpful comments :)

[Jon_vr6 1]

See i knew they wouldnt let you down mate!! Was going to make the comment about the bolts they dont look like mine on the rear will take a quick pic tomorrow to see if they are the same bolts as mine!