VR6 timing chains. Few questions from the chaps that know.

[MonkeyVR6 0]

Ok, so there is a lot of chat about the VR6 timing chains. Costs somewhere in the region of £700ish and while you're at it replace the clutch etc etc

 

However, my car is soon to reach 99,000 miles and its due a service (all parts of which I've bought). However, when are the timing chains due? The performance is still spot on and the engine only has a slight tappet noise.

 

So...why replace the timing chains?! I'm not saying I'm never going to do it, but I'd prefer to do it within the next 3 months - if it needs it - while I can still afford it before I move back to the UK. My intention is buy the kit from ARZ Tuning and then take it to my local dealership for them to fit the kit. When I last spoke to VW about it, they even recomended this kit as it came with updated/uprated bits of kit at a better price than they could offer.

 

Anything else need doing while I'm at it? I'm going to have about £1000 to spend in a oner, I've already got a new gearbox, new clutch and all 3 of the front engine mounts are new. I'm trying to make the car 'future proof' with some preventive measures.

 

All thoughts/opinions welcome.

[Toad 0]

You need to check them visually. Remove the rocker cover and inspect the top pad for wear. It's the top pad wearing that is the problem rather than the chains.

[tandino 0]

As above, you can see if the top tensioner pad is borked by removing the top engine covers,aux water pump, coilpack and upper timing cover, its about an hours work to do it all and put it back together.

The chains themselves very rarely fail and the bottom end tensioner and guide dont really wear.

I bought the bits from VW using the better Mk4 stuff and the chains themselves from GSF (chains were Febi) for about 100 quid, the parts themselves are not expensive....

[Toad 0]

Also worth looking at the front chain guide. I've seen several of these broken, but they can be replaced with just the top cover removed, if you need to keep going.

[andy 0]

However, my car is soon to reach 99,000 miles and its due a service (all parts of which I've bought). However, when are the timing chains due? The performance is still spot on and the engine only has a slight tappet noise.

 

So...why replace the timing chains?!

They are not due at any mileage, if the engine has been looked after and its running fine I seriously wouldn't worry. There are far too many scare stories about VR6 chains. My VR6 has 148k on it and the chains are original, as is the clutch etc etc. I've known countless VRs with that sort of mileage with no chain work. If the engine gets noticeably noisier then check out the upper tensioner as described. Until then....enjoy it. VRs are incredibly tough engines.

[Purple Tom 0]

I agree, I replaced the chains on my engine at roughly 134k but on removal and inspection they really didn't 'need' doing. However there was wear on both upper and lower tensioner pads and the lower guide rail was broken so I'm glad I did it anyway. I also replaced the components with the Mk4 upgrades where appropriate and I'm now confident that with the correct maintenance the engine will do another 100k without issue.

 

I would have said that if you're going to do it, you might as well do it now, it will certainly eliminate any doubt for the future.

[Jim Bowen 1]

my vr is just about to hit 189,000miles and its still original chains and tensioners

[Toad 0]

Don't rely on the engine getting noisier. The top pad can wear badly without it getting noticably noisier.

[tandino 0]

Don't rely on the engine getting noisier. The top pad can wear badly without it getting noticably noisier.

 

 

Agreed, usually you get a period of it being noisy as the chain runs over the rivet heads, then these break off and the chain goes quiet again as it runs on the metal back plate of the tensioner pad!

[andy 0]

my vr is just about to hit 189,000miles and its still original chains and tensioners

Sweet! Think how many cambelts some cars would have had in that time!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

There are far too many scare stories about VR6 chains.

 

And there are too many stories of "Yeah they're quiet, so must be fine" when in fact the upper pad was utterly f'cked.

 

My VR6 has 148k on it and the chains are original, as is the clutch etc etc. I've known countless VRs with that sort of mileage with no chain work. If the engine gets noticeably noisier then check out the upper tensioner as described. Until then....enjoy it. VRs are incredibly tough engines.

 

Good for you. My upper pad wore down to the rivets at 93K and the engine was perfectly quiet. Stealth have seen engines with as little as 70K on them with bad pad wear. VW changed the design of the pad for a reason, but so long as yours is OK, the rest of us can relax and not worry about it.

[craigowl 0]

Relax - dont throw £one grand at it. VW say chains do not have a recommended mileage for replacement.

I believe if car is/has not been making a noise, and has been oil-changed as recommended, forget it, particularly if you are not in the habit of thrashing the engine.

 

As for being futureproofed, do you seriously believe we will be able to run about in 2.9 litre "old engine technology" petrol cars at a cost you can afford in a few years time?

I reckon we will be taxed off the road. Sad but that seems inevitable IMO.

[Jim Bowen 1]

 

My VR6 has 148k on it and the chains are original, as is the clutch etc etc. I've known countless VRs with that sort of mileage with no chain work. If the engine gets noticeably noisier then check out the upper tensioner as described. Until then....enjoy it. VRs are incredibly tough engines.

 

Good for you. My upper pad wore down to the rivets at 93K and the engine was perfectly quiet. Stealth have seen engines with as little as 70K on them with bad pad wear. VW changed the design of the pad for a reason, but so long as yours is OK, the rest of us can relax and not worry about it.

 

 

my point is:

 

some people are spending up to £1k on the engine at 100k because people say do the chains. I choose not to choose chains, i choose something else :lol:

 

Even if mine has worn through something and isn't correct, its still running fine and has nearly managed another 100k with this "problem"

 

i'd rather keep the money for when i need a complete new engine, even if you do the chains 100k early, when you then get to 200k do you do them again?

 

I'm more concerned about piston rings/head gasket etc

[SamG40 0]

This was my top pad tensioner at around 112k. We had no noise at all from the engine but this was what was left of the pad. Fair enough maybe there is a bit of scare mongering but I would advise that at the least the top tensioner is checked. It wont take long or cost anything. Is it wort the risk?

 

[andy 0]

VW changed the design of the pad for a reason, but so long as yours is OK, the rest of us can relax and not worry about it.

 

You can worry about it all you like. It won't do you any good or change anything. I have owned three high mileage VR6s myself, have several friends with them and my other half has owned two, all maintained by me. I do know a bit about it thanks. I don't rely on everything someone else, ie Stealth, have told me or listen to scare stories on forums in order to gain an informed opinion. There is even a moderator on this very forum quoting that headlight switches should be replaced every few years. Come on.

 

Just because yours was worn down to the rivets at 93k means what exactly. If I choose not to change my engine oil, and rape the car senseless everyday from cold, I expect I would wear the bottom end out fairly quickly. It doesn't mean VRs are predetermined to wear out bottom ends regularly. Every car should be taken on its own merits, taking into account previous maintenance, general history/condition.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No one is worrying about it, least of all me.

 

All we're saying is check the tensioner, that's all. Why is that scare mongering?

If all it takes is an hour's labour to remove the intake and rocker cover and have a look at it, why is that such a big issue? I think the majority of VR6 owners would rather know for sure their engine does, or doesn't need chains / pads, than just stick their head in the sand about it because people like you say "Yeah it's quiet, I don't rag it, so must be fine". How do you actually know that without visual inspection?

 

At the end of the day, do what ever the feck you like with your engines. We're only trying to help, but if it's not wanted, fine, I don't give a schitt.

 

Bury your head in the sand about the headlight switches aswell. I think any advice about avoiding a potential car fire is very welcome, but you know best.

[craigowl 0]

Come on guys, calm down, calm down, will yer. Not worth getting to a state where steam is coming out of one's ears.

Your pooled knowledge is vital on the forum to others whatever conflicting views you may have.

 

I once asked on the forum if anyone personally knew of catastrophic damage to a VR6 engine due to chain failure - no one did at that time.

I understand the theory - I know what could happen.

If I am caught out by having this chains damage happen - so be it. Being lucky enough to own another car I will not be curling up and dying.

 

As for the headlight switch, I bought the in-line parts in Maplins the other day and will do this mod.

So, at the end of the day, we non-experts make our own decisions and opt for whatever measures we feel are value for money or may prevent a Corrado conflagration on the motorway. :)

[Toad 0]

I don't rely on everything someone else, ie Stealth, have told me or listen to scare stories on forums in order to gain an informed opinion. There is even a moderator on this very forum quoting that headlight switches should be replaced every few years. Come on.

 

So we should tell people to just drive them until the chain jumps, or the headlight switch causes it to catch fire??? What would you prefer, people were over cautious or people had cars written off?

 

Noone has ever told anyone that they must do anything to thier car, but at least everyone knows the risks involved. If someone was to just spend £1000 on a timing chain swap for no good reason then they are an idiot. At the same time, if someone chooses to drive their car around above 100,000 miles without checking the tensioners, or having any idea what state their engine is in, then they are also an idiot.

 

Mk4 tensioners are not infalible, I've had a broken tensioner bolt, snapped upper guide and the lower guide in about 30 pieces on my own car, and that's a 2001 engine with mk4 tensioners, new guides etc. Every car I've done a set of timing chains on has had a broken upper guide. Once that is broken, the chain can flap around, wear to the pad increases, and the chance of the chain jumping a tooth goes up. One of these cars with the broken upper guide had been running silently, as well as ever and had just put out over 200bhp on a rolling road.

[MonkeyVR6 0]

Err...I didn't mean to start an argument chaps! I'll find a garage who can take off the rocker cover etc and get them to tell me (and show me) if the chains need doing. If they need doing, I'll get them done, if not...then I'll spunk the cash on some Weitec suspension.

 

So instead of the ARZ Tuning 'chains kit', people seem to recommend getting the Mk4 Golf chains pack/kit from a Volkswagen dealership? I take it these kits are from the 2.8 V6 4Motion Golf's?

[Toad 0]

The tensioners are from a 12v VR6 as fitted to the mk4 golf in the states, probably the same as a Sharan or somthing. All the part no.s are on here somewhere. If you're going to wait till you are back, I've got most of the kit sat unwanted in my dungeon, if you're interested.

[andy 0]

So we should tell people to just drive them until the chain jumps, or the headlight switch causes it to catch fire???

Clearly not. No one is saying that and I for one am as keen on preventative maintenance as the next man. I just don't subscribe to the paranoia about timing chains on VR6s. As I say, through personal experience, not reading forums. Thats my opinion on the matter, I am allowed one.

You and I both know a worn out tensioner pad will not, on its own, cause a chain to slip. I would be far more concerned that the tensioner bolt itself was doing its job, I have known these too fail, and for the sake of £30 that is where I would be spending my money.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Err...I didn't mean to start an argument chaps!

 

Clash of the know it alls..... the scourge of all car forums :D

 

So instead of the ARZ Tuning 'chains kit', people seem to recommend getting the Mk4 Golf chains pack/kit from a Volkswagen dealership? I take it these kits are from the 2.8 V6 4Motion Golf's?

 

Just to clarify, the only MK4 bits are:-

 

Upper tensioner pad - 021109509E - £10 ish

Tensioner bolt - 021109507B - £25 ish

 

The rest is all generic Golf / Corrado.

 

If you want a full kit for a good price, a few people imported this kit a couple of years ago - http://www.fourseasontuning.com/?product=14

 

Worked out at around £100

[peppyuk 0]

Every car I've done a set of timing chains on has had a broken upper guide.

 

How many of those needed a rebuild?

[Toad 0]

Every car I've done a set of timing chains on has had a broken upper guide.

 

How many of those needed a rebuild?

 

Pretty much all of them, can't remember everything about them off the top of my head.

 

The metal backing of the original tensioner pad has a habit of bending with time and the plastic cracking. I've seen several with the plastic wearing material snapped at one end below the rivets where they have stretched. My old oil pump also had a lot of plastic jammed in the pickup where the guides were smashed into so many pieces, I'm surprised it hadn't caused oil starvation issues.

 

I know that a lot of cars are fine, and that people get very excited about the chains unnecessarily, but, I'm bloody glad the ones I worked on hadn't gotten any worse.

[dan 0]

Ok guys, very interesting thread

 

After reading I've ordered these MK4 parts from Dealer, numbers courtesy of Kev

Upper tensioner pad - 021109509E - €11.50

Tensioner bolt - 021109507B - €36

 

I'd spoken to my mechanic before about changing the VR chains & he didn't sound that enthusiastic about it, although he's well capable. I spoke to him today again & told him all he has to do is remove the rocker cover etc. (courtest Toad) and replace these parts. I've also asked him to check everything else when he's in there.

 

I was worried about the chains on my car because it has 97k on it & I was dreading the 100k cos I always told myself I'd change the chains etc at that time. After reading this thread I'm not so worried about them now thanks to andy & craig.

 

So thanks to you all for contributing :D