Disastrous Clatter From VR6 - tensioner bolt causes rebuild!

[Supercharged 2]

I'd say it's bound to be the tensioner at 120k - I've seen them worn down to the rivets at under 100k

 

Drop the oil and you'll probably find loads of bits of the tensioner, hopefully he turned it by hand and didn't start it although it sounds like the damage is already done

 

if it's jumped a tooth and anything is bent then i'd got for an exchange engine from VW or VEGE.

[MikLSP 0]

Everyone wants it to be the chains don't they :lol: I realise that these are a typical weak point though.

 

I hate all this waiting to find out the damage, I just want to know now what needs to be done. Unfortunately I have neither the equipment, time or expertise (or patience) to start to undertake this scale of job myself so it's no doubt going to cost me dear!!!

[muppetlab 0]

Everyone wants it to be the chains don't they :lol: I realise that these are a typical weak point though.

 

I hate all this waiting to find out the damage, I just want to know now what needs to be done. Unfortunately I have neither the equipment, time or expertise (or patience) to start to undertake this scale of job myself so it's no doubt going to cost me dear!!!

 

Get a 2nd hand engine with a known history. Might be cheaper than spending on chains and head/valve work

[KipVR 1]

Chain Tensioner, top one.

[barrowfordred 0]

Everyone wants it to be the chains don't they :lol: I realise that these are a typical weak point though.

 

I hate all this waiting to find out the damage, I just want to know now what needs to be done. Unfortunately I have neither the equipment, time or expertise (or patience) to start to undertake this scale of job myself so it's no doubt going to cost me dear!!!

Get the Golf sold before it goes down the same path as the Beetle :)

[fla 9]

any news here?

[MikLSP 0]

Still waiting for the complete diagnosis, he started taking things apart yesterday afternoon so hope to have the details today.

I'll let you all know the damage when I get it :?

[MikLSP 0]

OK, got an update and the news is not great!

 

Unfortunately I missed the phone call while I was playing football so just have a message to go on until I ring back tomorrow....

 

Anyway, here's what we've got:

-The timing chain guides and tensioners are damaged.

-8 (eight) valves are damaged!!

-Lips on the edge of the bores

 

Advise is rebuild!

 

The more I think about this information I think it must be the case that the chain tensioner has failed, the chain skipped a tooth and put the valves out of time causing the damage to them! I also guess the clattering noise was perhaps the valves getting battered by the pistons :cry:

 

As for the bore lips, I'm not certain what this means, is he saying the cylinders have a lip at the top of the piston stroke?

[dukest 0]

ah well, stay positive, sounds like the world is your oyster in terms of next steps now :)

[MikLSP 0]

That's what I'm trying to do, other than the cost. I'm at least going to end up with an engine that I know is going to be good....surely! :lol:

 

What things should I certainly be having done and what else does this present the opportunity for?

[joeyboswell 0]

24v engine? I'm gonna have to get my chains, tensioners and thermo sorted soon and I'm wandering whether to pay the grand or so for replacing it all (including clutch) or whether to get a 24v transplant or r32. mmm. decisions!

[MikLSP 0]

Doesn't it cost about £4k to do a 24V conversion though?

[joeyboswell 0]

It's silly money but I'm sure you could get it cheaper than 4k. It's another option though but to be honest I really like the standard vr6 engine so will probably just get the chains etc done and then maybe look into a charger or turbo (just maybe)...at least the engine will be more solid for mods. Sorry to hear about your car mate but I supposed it's just forced your hand to do what was inevitable anyway...and do what I'm putting off. Hope it all goes good anyway and it isn't as bad as it sounds.

[dukest 0]

£4k if you paid someone to do everything - depends if you've got any ability to do some yourself.

[MikLSP 0]

Yeah it's a sh!tter that all this is coming at once (having just done the brakes, clutch and gearbox!) but on the other hand once I'm out the other side things should be looking good :)

 

I wish I was able to do all this sort of stuff myself. I have no experience of this level of work as well as not having the equipment.

[Corr a do that! 0]

mate i feel for ya i got my vr6 a few days ago when i was looking round it checked the oil and, Wheres your oil mate hardley seeing it on the dip stick oh is it low he said JESUS anyway the car has a little tap all the time, sounds like it coming from the back left of the head to me just under the entrance of the air intake.

anyway i have my fingers x every time i drive it now and am not in the position to check it out or get it done having only just got back in the country and trying to start up self employed

so i feel for ya, let us know the cost of it approx so i can cry!

good luck mate

[dr_mat 0]

(Ticking that sounds like it comes from the back of the block is probably the oil pump gears, iirc..)

But back to the main subject here.. that's awful. And deeply unlucky. I've heard of several people say they've discovered chain tensioner problems when there was no tell-tale noises to accompany it as a warning, and maybe that's what happened to you?

[fla 9]

look at it this way, perhaps your suspension is all in order now - you just need to swop a new engine in. You can pick up 2.8 blocks pretty cheap - they'll have OBD2 so you'll have a more efficient engine. Its pretty much plug & play, so no great hassle or expense there.

 

Otherwise there is always the 24v route as mentioned earlier. The r32 appears more involved but now there's the install guide.

However, the 2.8 24v is more straightforward and only costs marginally more than the 12v. If you can do a lot of the work yourself, you'll save a LOT of cash and learn a lot too. Plus there's loads of people ready to help here.

 

best of luck in whatever you plan to do!

[dukest 0]

just to clarify above on the OBD2 2.8 though, the block is the same but if you want to run the obd2 ecu as well then that is a similar level wiring job as installing the 24v as its different engine management.

[fla 9]

just to clarify above on the OBD2 2.8 though, the block is the same but if you want to run the obd2 ecu as well then that is a similar level wiring job as installing the 24v as its different engine management.

 

aah, OK, thanks for the clarification. Still, its not a bad option, the only tricky one from my limited understanding is the r32. I guess it all depends upon your budget and whether you have access to an alternative car.

 

Or you could just buy one of the VRs for sale here - some nice looking ones for £1500 or so. Perhaps just do the chains etc on these and you're back in business. Might be quicker & easier.

[dukest 0]

If it hasn't been sold already I would go for this engine for long-term peace of mind - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=94276

[big ben 10]

good call, bargain right there... i would buy it and store it if i had somewhere i could keep it

[raddo_tom 0]

I feel you pain, I did dead on 93 miles in my vr from purchase till it blew up! Hope you can get it sorted, Also hope if you drop another engine in you'll go down the coffee table route with the old block.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The more I think about this information I think it must be the case that the chain tensioner has failed, the chain skipped a tooth and put the valves out of time causing the damage to them! I also guess the clattering noise was perhaps the valves getting battered by the pistons :cry:

 

Did the engine backfire when you started it? Sometimes old tensioner bolts can lose their seal and the resultant kickback on the valvegear can cause teeth jumping, but it's quite rare. If not that, your top tensioner must have been utterly shagged to cause teeth skipping.

 

As for the bore lips, I'm not certain what this means, is he saying the cylinders have a lip at the top of the piston stroke?

 

He means your cylinders have a wear ridge. It's the part of the bore that isn't in contact with the piston rings. Generally speaking, if you can catch the lip with your finger nail, the bores are well worn and you need oversize pistons.

[MikLSP 0]

so i feel for ya, let us know the cost of it approx so i can cry!

good luck mate

Not got exact costs yet but I have been told it will be 4 figure rather than 3 figure :(

 

But back to the main subject here.. that's awful. And deeply unlucky. I've heard of several people say they've discovered chain tensioner problems when there was no tell-tale noises to accompany it as a warning, and maybe that's what happened to you?

Yeah it seems so as I had no apparent chain noise. The other possibility may be that it dropped a valve which hit the piston and caused the chain to skip a tooth? Not sure, either way the damage is the same ;)

 

If it hasn't been sold already I would go for this engine for long-term peace of mind - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=94276

If I had the gear to swap engines myself then I probably would but seeing as I'll be paying a fair whack to get that done anyway I think I'd rather have the piece of mind of a completely rebuilt engine of my own.

 

Did the engine backfire when you started it? Sometimes old tensioner bolts can lose their seal and the resultant kickback on the valvegear can cause teeth jumping, but it's quite rare. If not that, your top tensioner must have been utterly shagged to cause teeth skipping.

 

He means your cylinders have a wear ridge. It's the part of the bore that isn't in contact with the piston rings. Generally speaking, if you can catch the lip with your finger nail, the bores are well worn and you need oversize pistons.

It didn't backfire no.

I have asked about the lips on the cylinders and they are not so bad that it needs a re-bore, apparently just re-honing.

 

At least this way I will have an engine which should be in essence like new. He is also going to replace the oil pump internals.

 

Will have to see if I can get down there and give the engine bay a good clean up while the lump is out.