Jim 2 Posted October 23, 2011 Kev - have you looked into other same era VW's to check out different airbox configurations for inspiration? Is the objective to keep the air cleaner box in the factory location, or would you use the original box in an alternate location..? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted October 23, 2011 ...or something like this maybe? It would need the bigger Audi TB to fit, but it might just squeeze in the gap between the engine and washer bottle if you move the header tank over the other side, but it might be a bit too wide by the looks of it. I used a TT one because it has a ribbed top (ooerr) like the VR one and it matched the TB. Do you know of anyone who makes a stand alone for a diesel? I need more mpg from my daily Mk2 and I'm looking at the 2.0 tdi engines. Great read as always, keep the updates coming! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 24, 2011 Jim, my main objective is to make the R32 engine blend in and look as 'period' as possible. Kip's install was the inspiration but I hoped to take it one step further with the Corrado airbox. Unfortunately you can't use the Rado box anywhere else but it's standard location. I'm now starting to think about the cost of materials to get my plan to work vs the cost of a TT airbox like Kip's! Kip, how does air get fed into your TT box? That box in your picture looks like Rob's MK5 airbox and it's a monster!! A serious amount of work to get that in! I wonder why the DSG airbox and MAF are bigger than the manual's? Same power and everything. Maybe the lightning fast gearshifts empty the airbox a lot faster? Could I pump you for some more details on your TT airbox? Did it go in easily or was a lot of modifying required? I did see a Standalone ECU for diesels being advertised in the back of PPC magazine, but I forget the name of it now, sorry! I don't think it was cheap either! Diesel tuning is still very much in it's heydey because the rewards seem to be without compromise - more power and more mpg, hence why the products to tune them come with a hefty tax applied..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coullstar 0 Posted October 24, 2011 I doubt that would fit, suspension turret intrusion was always the problem when I tired a few Mk4 airboxes in mine. I still think a 180deg intake pipe with correct heat sheilding will allow you to get it in the stock position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 24, 2011 Yeah, agreed. Got a price of £85 for the MK5 TT airbox like Kip's, plus more cash for the intake hose and the little intake tube that clips into the bottom of the airbox, so well over £100 all in. I think I'll stick with the Corrado airbox plan :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wy906 0 Posted October 24, 2011 Good job Kev, coming along nicely! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim 2 Posted October 24, 2011 Will there be no issues with the sheer length of ducting that the air will have to take to get round to the intake port on the inlet manifold? Assuming you have to run it round the original route and then into some sort of 180 degree bend I wonder if you'll get any strange resonance or other sounds under acceleration! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) I've got no idea why the dsg MAF's should be bigger, I thought it was an Audi / VW thing not gearbox related? The map is different between Audi and VW I know that much and I think the Audi's have a 3 more BHP or something? The airbox (Mk1 3.2V6 TT) was fairly easy to fit tbh, I made a bracket with a tube on it to suspend the stud that pokes out of the air feed side, and then, drilled out the spot welds holding the water bottle bracket on. There's a small air guide that comes on the TT I originally planned to put through the wing by the battery (see pic with masking tape on) but i chickened out of cutting the hole in the wing- I considered it to be an irreversible mod I couldn't easily put back. So now I plan to somehow get air from behind the headlight around the back of the battery as there is actually a fair amount of ducting room there. The lower hose on the water bottle neatly goes around the lower half of the airbox. Edited October 24, 2011 by KipVR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted October 24, 2011 KipVR- that looks great and very OE - what air box is it?? did the bottom part fit without modification apart from removing the washer bottle bracket? What about the washerbottle - is that a MK4 part? bracket? These are 2 things I really need to tidy up on the TDI! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted October 24, 2011 The washer bottle is from a Mk1 Golf Diesel- mainly american market. I made the bracket for it. It also has the capasity for headlight washers should I feel the need to empty my washer bottle of fluid in 2 pulls of the stalk! The Airbbox is a Mk1 TT V6 one. I haven't held it in all the same places as it would have been in the TT, actually i've just remembered I chopped a plastic mounting lug off to stop it rubbing on a hose. I've made a bracket that holds it against the side (see above) and another that holds it from underneath (no pics of that yet) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 24, 2011 Jim, yeah I reckon the top end will suffer but I'm not that bothered at this stage. I need to get some proving miles under it's belt before I start rolling out the mods :D Kip, well done on your install, it looks amazing! That MK1 TT box is still a chunky old thing and I do like the ribbing, very Corrado! I can see why people just dangle a cone in there in now! Fitting an airbox of any kind isn't exactly straight forward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WigsVR6 0 Posted October 24, 2011 Wow I've missed this I dont normally go on the owners thread. Just read from page 28 and I'm amazed at your skills. Gutted your engine blew up but its a nice opertunity for you to get that R32 lump in. Have you in mind of what numbers your going to achieve for HP and torque with the cams etc? I went to a rolling road day at Awesome GTI over the weekend with the R32 owners club and some members managed to get 280 bhp at the flywheel and around 310 ft/pds torque with mods such as yours + miltech exhausts. Here are some results. Mk IV R32 Scaniadub 280bhp ! and 283lb/ft SieB 252bhp and 310lb/ft Craggle 260 bhp and 293lb/ft FrankieR32 253bhp and 289lb/ft Wilkymk4 253bhp and 291lb/ft Cheers Alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 24, 2011 Cheers mate :D It was completely my fault the turbo engine blew, but you live and learn :lol: Shame really as it would have gone on indefinitely! Well, it still can. I've still got the block in my garage and a replacement piston, so I'll fit that and store it for a rainy day in case the 32 doesn't work out :D I'm hoping for 100hp/litre, so 320hp is the ultimate aim. I don't want to count my chickens so I'll just try each mod systematically like I usually do and offer my feedback. I'm sure I'll just end up at my usual conclusion of "Don't waste your time with NA mods, just fit a turbo" :lol: For some reason the people on the R32 OC feel 300hp is a virtually impossible barrier to get through. It's not. I have no idea why they are struggling to get past that but I know for a fact 2 of this country's best mappers have hit 100hp/litre a few times. Even a standard engine with a Stealth map has been shown to make 280hp. Cams is what you need to break the ton per litre....and some quality mapping :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KipVR 1 Posted October 24, 2011 Kev, most people on the R32 forums are using a remapped VW ECU the car comes with, maybe the DTA offers more adjustment and hence better power outputs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pat_McCrotch 0 Posted October 24, 2011 Saw this tonight. Beautifully executed, can't wait to hear it on the road! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WigsVR6 0 Posted October 25, 2011 I'm sure you'll hit your target you know what your doing. I just love the attention to detail thats gone right the way through your build. The engine bay looks superb after the loom clean up. I do like the way in which the R32 delivers its power at the bottom end theres so much grunt compared to the 12v but theres nothing there at the top end!! Its like setting off a rocket with no explosion at the end. It does dissapoint on that front TBH. I guess its down to having a relativley flat torgue curve? I do miss that surge the 12v gives at 4000 rpm and the engine noise that comes with it. Maybe your tweeks will resolve some of this? Fuel comsumption isn't that bad really. I managed an impressive 34 mpg on a recent motorway trip doing between 60/70 mph I wasn't in any rush and I can achieve around 27/29 on the 7 mile trip to work. The Golf is a heavy car around 1500kg IIRC compared to the Corrado's 1300kg again IIRC. Hope you get it going soon looking forward to seeing this finished Alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks for your vote of confidence but this is just it, I don't know what I'm doing! :D It's a 'learn on the job' project! I just hope I don't wreck it as it was practically brand new inside when stripped. It still needs running-in in fact! Yeah that's what this project is all about, improving that flat top end! It does actually pull at the top end, it just doesn't feel like it does because the rate of acceleration lower down upstages it. It's like the old 8V versus 16V again. 12V versus 24V. Things never change do they? :D I guess you just have to drive an R32 like a diesel and keep it in the torque zone. That said, the R32's outright performancwe always was dissapointing and it really struggles to shake off standard Golf and Corrado VR6s, let alone mildly tweaked ones. The only advantage the R32 has is traction and an early couple of car length's lead because of the bottom end. Yeah the R32 engine is a real weapon in a car ~250kg lighter than it's donor! ---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ---------- Kev, most people on the R32 forums are using a remapped VW ECU the car comes with, maybe the DTA offers more adjustment and hence better power outputs? I do wonder about that. The VW ECU is extremely clever and feature packed but VW's mapping strategy for the R32 is based around driver demand. It reads inputs from throttle position, yaw angle, steering angle and ABS sensors and then decides on how much power / torque to deploy. Then you have all the emissions crap on top. A standalone will certainly cut out the numerous middlemen and allow the engine to get on with it's job of making power :D Saw this tonight. Beautifully executed, can't wait to hear it on the road! You made me jump you git when you shouted through the garage, lol! :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicky1980 0 Posted October 25, 2011 Wigs, your getting much better MPG than I do. I get 26-27 MPG (calculated per tank), thats with general use! Must have something wrong with mine, will get it looked at. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boost monkey 0 Posted October 25, 2011 Sam, perhaps your larger wheels have altered the gearing? That would mean you have to give X% more throttle to get the same in-gear acceleration. I'm assuming Wigs has standard wheels on his car. Standard for the engine I mean. Not that engines have wheels. Oh you know what I mean...! With regards to the lack of top end on the R32, I know what you mean - but it's so counterintuitive isn't it! We all know that 2v per cyl is good for low down punch and 4v per cyl is good for top end (generally speaking) so the 24V should be a bit of a screamer. But as said, only about 5-10% of R32 owners will drive like that, so the VW ECU is geared toward the masses that change up below 4000rpm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedTyphoon 0 Posted October 25, 2011 Wigs, your getting much better MPG than I do. I get 26-27 MPG (calculated per tank), thats with general use! Must have something wrong with mine, will get it looked at. I dont think there is problem with yours. Mine is doing same,but have to say Im not a tractor parade driver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 25, 2011 I got the impression Mr Wigs no longer has the corrado and now has an actual R32 :D If this is true, then they have bigger wheels and a 6th gear which will definitely help with the part throttle cruising. I have to say, 34 seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Most R32 owners I've spoken to rarely get more tha mid 20s! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wy906 0 Posted October 25, 2011 Kev, how much do you think the weight difference is between a VR6 corrado and a R32 corrado? (assuming drivetrain etc the same) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 25, 2011 Block is about the same but the head is a LOT heavier than the 12V's! It may all balance out though as the R32 has a plastic intake instead of a heavy metal one.... so around the 170kg mark + gearbox (50Kg). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wy906 0 Posted October 25, 2011 So standard VR6 = 190bhp and 1240kg = 153bhp per tonne; R32 Corrado with all the trimmings about 1300kg(?) and with 320 target bhp = 246bhp per tonne In other words, FUN!!! :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 25, 2011 Not as much fun as my 320hp per tonne VRT :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
