VR6 Head bolt dilemma...help required.

[StueyB 0]

Have searched for this topic coming up before can't find a definitive answer.

 

After a rather shocking call to VW Bedford to price up some genuine head bolts I was a little shocked to find out the price:

 

021 103 384 E (7) - £4.27 each

021 103 384 D (10) - £4.39 each

021 103 384 F (3) - £6.10 each

 

These are pre-vat prices also, sounded ok until the parts guy did the maths....

 

....£108.20 inc VAT.

 

Bearing in mind I had GSF / Euro Car Parts prices in my head of around £30/40 i was a little shocked to find out the above.

 

So doesn't anyone know 'who' makes the genuine (read over priced) head bolts in the same way that Victor Reinz make equivalent gaskets...?

 

I'm a little afraid of using GSF bolts from my bro's experience on his Golf VR and many others i've read online.

 

ECP sell Febi ones...are these any better quality...?

 

I've also have opportunity to buy some ARP head bolts off a friend having originally thought these may be over kill for a mild tune N/A VR but i'm starting to think if Gen bolts are that expensive why not...?

 

Any advice / help / experience greatly received.

 

Stu

[andy 0]

Shocking isn't it! I remember those prices, personally I'd probably go for the febi ones, febi stuff is normally pretty good.

[zak 0]

I would avoid the GSF ones as i heard they can go soft wehn torqueing up. Ive personally used a few sets of the ECP febi ones and have had no problems. If you are likely to have your head of again in the future ARP is the way to go as they are reusable and will save you money in the long run.

[Supercharged 2]

Ford dealer?

[Jim 1]

Heard that ARP head bolts are actually cheaper than buying new from VAG now...? Might be the next best option...

[OAK-VR6 0]

I used the Febi ones on my old valver engine and they were spot on m8 :wink:

[matty.vrt 0]

Get the vw ones there worth it I put double standard power through mine no issues.

[mariojoshi 1]

I'd strongly suggest the ARPs.... far less work for me that way :)

[emu 0]

I have ARP's for sale 150 posted.

[davidwort 0]

I reused the stretch ones on my 16v once, but I wouldn't recommend it :lol:

 

The garage my dad works at never seem to have an issue with pattern head bolts, I can't see why the VR6 should be so special in this respect. I've only ever heard of problems mentioned on forums, but quite what happened in those 'anecdotal cases' is anyones guess, probably warped heads anyway.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Get the vw ones there worth it I put double standard power through mine no issues.

 

Yet

[The_Dude 0]

Get the vw ones there worth it I put double standard power through mine no issues.

 

Yet

 

x2. Mine failed at only 300 hp.

[StueyB 0]

Shocking isn't it! I remember those prices, personally I'd probably go for the febi ones, febi stuff is normally pretty good.

Shocking indeed.

I would avoid the GSF ones as i heard they can go soft wehn torqueing up. Ive personally used a few sets of the ECP febi ones and have had no problems. If you are likely to have your head of again in the future ARP is the way to go as they are reusable and will save you money in the long run.

Thats what happened to my bro's when he torqued them up.

Ford dealer?

May give them a call tomorrow, just for shits and giggles.

Heard that ARP head bolts are actually cheaper than buying new from VAG now...? Might be the next best option...

I don't think this is quite true but not far off.

I'd strongly suggest the ARPs.... far less work for me that way :)

You would - Mr Sellout.

I have ARP's for sale 150 posted.

Appreciate the offer but thats a little strong for me.

...but quite what happened in those 'anecdotal cases' is anyones guess, probably warped heads anyway.

Understand a fair amount of duff info floats around forums so defo take with a pinch of salt but my brother's experience (SAAB Tech) was exactly as I've read online so i would imagine there is some truth in this.

Get the vw ones there worth it I put double standard power through mine no issues.

Yet

 

x2. Mine failed at only 300 hp.[/quote:1nd4k0b3]

Haha i don't think i'll have to worry about that then...is an N/A 300bhp VR possible?

 

Thanks for all the advice, knowledge and personal experience peoples, I have gone for some Febi ones (to accompany my Victor Reinz HG kit) from ECP @ the grand total of £27.01 + free shipping. Thats a total saving of £81.19. Quite funny really and if all goes wrong then I can stomach a £27 hit for the sake of trying them. That and my bro loves taking heads off VR's. :lol:

[andy 0]

I'm sure you won't have a problem. In all seriousness how different can they be to VW ones. The thing with VW parts is that the cost has no reflection on the true value of the part. Its completely made up, taking into account cost of storage, demand etc. I recently paid £4 each for 2 M12 nuts on my front suspension, truly ridiculous!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

If you're talking about the 2 strut nuts (18mm head) then they are easily worth £4 each for the captive washer engineering that's gone into them, not to mention the grade of steel used.

 

I find people on this forum's willingness to fit schitt parts to their cars truly staggering at times. How can you be fussy about gaskets by insisting on Reinz, and then fit 30 quid bolts from GSF? :roll:

 

I don't think it's people not being able to afford it, it's just smacks of begrudging tight fistedness and reluctance to maintain the car to the standard it deserves. Fit cheap junk to an Escort by all means, but a high performance coupe? It beggars belief. If VR6 ownership brings you out in a cold sweat every time you ring the dealer, FFS by a Nova.

[big ben 10]

:lol:

[andy 0]

If you're talking about the 2 strut nuts (18mm head) then they are easily worth £4 each for the captive washer engineering that's gone into them, not to mention the grade of steel used.

 

I find people on this forum's willingness to fit schitt parts to their cars truly staggering at times. How can you be fussy about gaskets by insisting on Reinz, and then fit 30 quid bolts from GSF? :roll:

 

I don't think it's people not being able to afford it, it's just smacks of begrudging tight fistedness and reluctance to maintain the car to the standard it deserves. Fit cheap junk to an Escort by all means, but a high performance coupe? It beggars belief. If VR6 ownership brings you out in a cold sweat every time you ring the dealer, FFS by a Nova.

It didn't bring me out in a sweat. I fitted 100% genuine VW parts throughout my whole suspension revamp, as I invariably do. Sorry if you don't like other people having opinions, but I find £4 for a nut excessive (not in the £1200 cost of my front end revamp, but yes, for a nut it occurred to me that it was quite pricey!) We all know that VW prices are made up, no one is doubting the quality.

If I'm not mistaken the original poster was asking for opinions on bolts, if you really believe that Febi bolts are not good enough on a stock VR6 (not one with 350 plus turbo horses) then, in my opinion, you have lost touch. Febi are not renowned for making crap. Its a bolt, it meets a spec.

Funnily enough, the last VR6 head job I did, I used a Victor Reinz gasket, from GSF. Because I didn't see the point in paying VW 4 times as much for the same item. Oh and INA lifters for the same reason. There was a factor of three difference in GSF prices versus VW.

[StueyB 0]

If you're talking about the 2 strut nuts (18mm head) then they are easily worth £4 each for the captive washer engineering that's gone into them, not to mention the grade of steel used.

 

I find people on this forum's willingness to fit schitt parts to their cars truly staggering at times. How can you be fussy about gaskets by insisting on Reinz, and then fit 30 quid bolts from GSF? :roll:

 

I don't think it's people not being able to afford it, it's just smacks of begrudging tight fistedness and reluctance to maintain the car to the standard it deserves. Fit cheap junk to an Escort by all means, but a high performance coupe? It beggars belief. If VR6 ownership brings you out in a cold sweat every time you ring the dealer, FFS by a Nova.

It didn't bring me out in a sweat. I fitted 100% genuine VW parts throughout my whole suspension revamp, as I invariably do. Sorry if you don't like other people having opinions, but I find £4 for a nut excessive (not in the £1200 cost of my front end revamp, but yes, for a nut it occurred to me that it was quite pricey!) We all know that VW prices are made up, no one is doubting the quality.

If I'm not mistaken the original poster was asking for opinions on bolts, if you really believe that Febi bolts are not good enough on a stock VR6 (not one with 350 plus turbo horses) then, in my opinion, you have lost touch. Febi are not renowned for making crap. Its a bolt, it meets a spec.

Funnily enough, the last VR6 head job I did, I used a Victor Reinz gasket, from GSF. Because I didn't see the point in paying VW 4 times as much for the same item. Oh and INA lifters for the same reason. There was a factor of three difference in GSF prices versus VW.

My original post was indeed asking opinions on bolts, and in most part that is what i have received so thanks.

 

As i'm sure a lot of you are aware including Andy above it is possible to source O.E. parts from sources other than VW themselves, a lot of the time the parts VW use aren't VW made so therefore the 'geniune' prices they quote seem ridiculous when in some cases you can pop up the road to the likes of GSF / ECP and order the same part if not an item of equal quality for 3 times less...who in their right mind in the current climate isn't going to do that...?

 

It was my expectations of the VW head bolt prices that shocked me. Double GSF/ECP price was expectation but triple and some, in this case i just don't understand where they get that figure from?

 

How can you be fussy about gaskets by insisting on Reinz, and then fit 30 quid bolts from GSF? :roll:

I also realise then when the terms 'GSF' or 'ECP' parts gets thrown around, this is not strictly true as its refering to a vast range of parts manufacturers that they stock.

 

However having first hand experience of 'unknown branded' GSF parts and reading multiple sources on here saying the same thing regarding Reinz, the previous HAS made me 'fussy' regarding gaskets. GSF have fallen foul of selling sub standard gaskets in the past but have now ditched them for Reinz gear. Prices have stayed roughly the same yet the quality has gone up to almost / if not 'geniune' standard.

I ask you which gasket manufacturer would you choose for the same price....?

 

I can apply the exact same situation to to CV joints & kits. I'm currently running fully refurbished driveshafts with GKN outers and geniune VAG inners. If i'm not mistaken Mr Haywire, the same GKN joints your running. Any reason why you didn't go fully genuine on these? I'd hazard a guess at it being exactly the same reason as your arguing against above.