1.8T Engine choice Confusion

[AJ_EQ 0]

Have been looking into this conversion and read through most of the 20vt thread, but am still a little confused as to what car to get it from.

 

I can get hold of a MK4 GTi (2001, 150bhp) or a cheaper mk4 1999 (125bhp). I have a feeling there's something different between these other than just the tuning.

 

I have also read that the turbos were upgraded around this time and Im not sure what year attributes to what turbo, or which one is preferred.

 

Other option is to take one out of 2001 A3 (150bhp). Obviously the lower the mileage on the engine the better, but when it comes to tuning and possibly upgrading to ko4, should avoid 100k+ engines?

Hope someone can clear up my confusion on this subject.

[CazzaVR 0]

A 180 bhp AUQ or the 225 bhp BAM engine would be best imho. Good power out of the box + 30bhp from a remap. If you're gonna go through the hassle, not worth going for the others IMHO.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The 125hp engine is a non-turbo 20V unit normally found in base spec A4s (badged '1.8' in the 90s) and really isn't worth bothering with. Coarse and gutless. Not sure the MK4 got that engine? GTIs were either the disastrously bad 8V engine, or the turbo 150, then later the turbo 180 (Anniversary).

 

As Cazza says, get a TT engine. Much better engine, much better management and much better turbo.

[corrado_sunderland 0]

A 180 bhp AUQ or the 225 bhp BAM engine would be best imho. Good power out of the box + 30bhp from a remap. If you're gonna go through the hassle, not worth going for the others IMHO.

 

nah, the 180 engine is the weakest out the lot and least tuneable so is a poor choice, either get a 225bhp (bam etc) lump or a 150 (agu) and fit the ko3s or ko4 turbo to up the power as agu engine has the big valve head out the box and slighty meatier internals so is the 2nd best option aside the 225 engines ;)

Edited March 18, 2011 by corrado_sunderland

[Rob_B 0]

The AUQ is a great engine! Anything post 2002 will run the later K03 turbo (K03s as it's incorrectly called) and will run 20psi of boost for between 220 and 250 after a remap.

The BAM engine is a good engine with a steel crank and slightly stronger internals. Command a premium though so usually over priced.

The AMK engine from a 210bhp Leon is another good choice. These engines with the K04 will remap up to 260-270bhp.

The AGU engine has a big valve head and strong internals but has the early K03. Good engine if you change the turbo and change the ignition system to individual coil packs.

Hope that helps

[CazzaVR 0]

As above- it took very little effort to get my Octavia vRS (180bhp AUQ) over 220bhp.

[AJ_EQ 0]

Right have finally started to get to grips with this subject now, muchas gracias for the wealth of knowledge. So have wikipediadered this 1.8T and theres definitely a few different ones available.

My massive newby engine knowledge fail error was assuming the engines were all the same, albeit tuned/turbo'd differently. Thanks for clearing this up.

 

I am very interested in the agu as it is an easy option available to me. Could anyone give me an idea of how much i should expect to spend on getting it to various staged, particular the top end? Also what sort of power gains should I expect from this? If the turbo and ignition system were changed would this really be a lot worse than say the AUQ/BAM.

 

If someone could give me an idea of the prices of the optimal engines with remaps that would be awesome.

 

I can get the agu for 1.3k btw.

[Peebee 0]

The 125bhp engine you speak of is the 2.0 NA mk 4 Golf, the 150bhp is the turbo'd one and the 180bhp was the anniversary edition. The 225bhp engine that goes in the the TT has options for a 6th gear. ;)

[corrado_sunderland 0]

The agu is next best engine to 210 and 225 engines, and yes everyone knows the ko3s is not correctly called a ko3s but its easier to call it that instead of a ko3 with uprated internals.

 

The agu is cheaper, strong, has cable throttle so makes an easy install and spares are cheaper so its an ideal engine over the 180's as its simple and tuneable.

 

It can easy run 280bhp on standard internals it purely depends on how well you cool and breath the engine (and of course which turbo, downpipe and exhaust and cooler etc you run).

 

ko3 hybrid turbos can produce really good gain (around £550 cost i belive) its bolts to standard manifold and all you need is nice big intercooler, decent exhaust and filter etc and hey presto after a remap. Not many things like maf etc and injectors etc need changing for biggish power and i think roughly 260-280 is achieveable with them ;)

[bigpants baby 0]

Have been looking into this conversion and read through most of the 20vt thread, but am still a little confused as to what car to get it from.

 

I can get hold of a MK4 GTi (2001, 150bhp) or a cheaper mk4 1999 (125bhp). I have a feeling there's something different between these other than just the tuning.

 

I have also read that the turbos were upgraded around this time and Im not sure what year attributes to what turbo, or which one is preferred.

 

Other option is to take one out of 2001 A3 (150bhp). Obviously the lower the mileage on the engine the better, but when it comes to tuning and possibly upgrading to ko4, should avoid 100k+ engines?

Hope someone can clear up my confusion on this subject.

 

I have 2x AUQ engine set ups if required?

[AJ_EQ 0]

I have 2x AUQ engine set ups if required?

 

thanks for the offer, but have already accepted my mates AGU at a bargain price.

 

Would I see much more gains if i upgraded the ko3's (hybrid) to ko4? Any idea how much this would amount to?

 

So if you can get a cheap AGU and with practically standard internals and get 260-280 out of it, why would you pay premium for a 210-225 with the same power after remap?

[Rob_B 0]

you didn't pay £1300 for an AGU did you? the later engines run VVT if you are running the factory management. should make the engine a bit more efficient. The early engines like the AGU don't run that. If you go with stand alone management it won't make any difference as you don't run VVT.

The AGU runs a big valve head which would be advantageous if you want to make big power. Not any difference for at the lower end of the scale.

The AGU has a steel crank and bigger wrist pins if I remember correctly than later 150/180bhp engines. To get an AGU to 260-280bhp you need to run a K04 turbo with the matching manifold and injectors. People pay more money for 225bhp engines because they already have the set up you need to make 260bhp with a map.

As a guideline, the early K03 makes around 210-220bhp, late K03 makes 230-240bhp and the K04 makes 260-280bhp. This is the rough figure you will get from a remap on factory management from those turbos. It doesn't really matter what engine you bolt the turbo to, it will make the same power regardless of how strong the internals are. 1.8t's run up to around 320-340bhp on factory internals before you need to change the rods.

[dannyboy 0]

hi guys,

Im going to be doing the Bam conversion when i get back to germany.Is it better to run the drive by wire system,running the throttle pedal from donor car or is it better using a drive by cable system? im getting engine complete with engine loom and ECU,which i think should make it bit more reliable.obviously ill be de-imobilising the ECU but is there any plus points in keeping the pedal,would have thought you need to when using orginal ECU

[bigpants baby 0]

you didn't pay £1300 for an AGU did you? the later engines run VVT if you are running the factory management. should make the engine a bit more efficient. The early engines like the AGU don't run that. If you go with stand alone management it won't make any difference as you don't run VVT.

The AGU runs a big valve head which would be advantageous if you want to make big power. Not any difference for at the lower end of the scale.

The AGU has a steel crank and bigger wrist pins if I remember correctly than later 150/180bhp engines. To get an AGU to 260-280bhp you need to run a K04 turbo with the matching manifold and injectors. People pay more money for 225bhp engines because they already have the set up you need to make 260bhp with a map.

As a guideline, the early K03 makes around 210-220bhp, late K03 makes 230-240bhp and the K04 makes 260-280bhp. This is the rough figure you will get from a remap on factory management from those turbos. It doesn't really matter what engine you bolt the turbo to, it will make the same power regardless of how strong the internals are. 1.8t's run up to around 320-340bhp on factory internals before you need to change the rods.

 

 

I hope he didnt,Im selling complete conversions for less than that,6 speed box,k03s & 312mm brake set up etc

[Kevin Bacon 5]

the later engines run VVT if you are running the factory management. should make the engine a bit more efficient. The early engines like the AGU don't run that. If you go with stand alone management it won't make any difference as you don't run VVT.

 

Shame really as tuning the intake cam against boost has a profound effect on spool and power :D

[Rob_B 0]

Shame really as tuning the intake cam against boost has a profound effect on spool and power :D

 

yeah I know, just more complicated to map really. Maybe some of the high end standalone software could cope with that extra variable but the MBE stuff isn't set up for it as far as I can telll, its pretty basic

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Far from complicate mate. It's just On at rpm xxxx, and off again at rpm xxxx :D

 

I'll be using it when I stick the 24V turbo in but Norfolk's own Mr Walker found 50hp from a 24V turbo from the same boost pressure, just by fiddling with the intake cam with one of his Emerald systems.

[AJ_EQ 0]

Dont Worry I didnt pay that for just the engine, that price was in a working Audi. The AGU off my mate is priced at £350. Should I be concerned about the mileage though, think he said it has just over 100k on the clock?

 

Also is there a way of telling what turbo is on it? was the ko3s put in after a certain year?

 

I think if its a ko3s I wont upgrade it? How would you even start to get over 300bhp out of interest? Im guessing the 230-240 estimate is literally just the remap.

 

If its the ko3 do you think its worth upgrading the ko4. Ive also heard theres more progressive power with the ko4 with less turbo lag.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Bigger turbo and most definitely a higher flowing exhaust manifold. The biggest variant of the K04-XXX family turbo (used on the Audi RS4), think it was an 007 IIRC, might get you around 290hp with a better manifold, but personally you're into Garrett GT28RS territory if you want 300 or more.

 

Bear in mind boost isn't just boost. It's all about flow. Sure, the K03S can grab you 220ish hp over a narrow torque band, but the K04 is worth upgrading too purely for it's wider power band as well as it's higher peak power. Same again with the Garrett GT28. Trust me, 15psi from that on a 1.8T is night/day faster than 15psi of any of K03/4 turbos. MASSIVELY faster :D

 

I personally hate original K03 engine. It's all or nothing around 2500rpm and feck all from 4000rpm. That's fine if you like 250lb torque at no revs that shreds tyres and breaks gears, but the K04 is the much faster car out on the open road and the Garrett will just annihilate anything with K03/4 turbo :lol:

[Rob_B 0]

the AGU has the smallest turbo as standard.

for 300+ you need to start thinking about a gt28rs like Kev says.

K04's make their power higher up the rev range, so there is more lag than a K03.

it's difficult to recommend something for someone without knowing exactly what they want to achieve or how they like an engine to feel

 

---------- Post added at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

 

Far from complicate mate. It's just On at rpm xxxx, and off again at rpm xxxx :D

 

I'll be using it when I stick the 24V turbo in but Norfolk's own Mr Walker found 50hp from a 24V turbo from the same boost pressure, just by fiddling with the intake cam with one of his Emerald systems.

 

that's an interesting point. I've never been to Emerald even though I pass it several times a week. I think his stuff is quite good with some nice features such as multiple maps on the same ECU.

I know custom code were getting some good results from playing with the VVT on the 3.2 engine not so long ago aswell

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah an Emerald system would be perfect for you if Walker's Workshop is only down the road! But if you like your MBE and it drives how you want it currently, £600 quid is a lot to fork out to tweak your cams!

[AJ_EQ 0]

ok thanks for all the info guys. At the moment im still driving my VR6 and I love the progressive power of the engine. I dont think any turbo'd engine is ever going to feel like this, but am still interested in the whole 1.8T thing.

 

Say the AGU I get has ko3 (still not sure how to check this, im guessing they look different, anyone know what year they started putting in ko3s in golf gti?)

 

What would be the best option to upgrade to? Prices to reflect these options would be very helpful. A quick search shows not a huge amount of difference in price between the ko3s, ko4 and gt28, but im guessing as the turbo is upgraded, there should be various upgrades made to support it?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

2002 ish I think, the 'Anniversary' GTI as already mentioned.

 

Hah, the VR6 will feel like a flat old duffer after you've been in a 1.8T :D They do anyway tbh, compared to any engine, let alone a turbo one! Why not just turbo the VR6 instead and get an immense torque band and supercar rivalling in-gear acceleration?

[AJ_EQ 0]

well yes that was my original trail of thought, but then after finding I may possibly need an engine rebuild totally a potential £3k plus before even thinking about the turbo, I started looking at the 1.8T. Though dont get me wrong, id love a vr6 turbo.

 

hmmm any idea on how each different turbo and requisite upgrades, including remaps would affect my bank balance?

 

Just thought easily spending 8k on the Vr6 seemed a bad option perhaps.

[corrado_sunderland 0]

ok thanks for all the info guys. At the moment im still driving my VR6 and I love the progressive power of the engine. I dont think any turbo'd engine is ever going to feel like this, but am still interested in the whole 1.8T thing.

 

Say the AGU I get has ko3 (still not sure how to check this, im guessing they look different, anyone know what year they started putting in ko3s in golf gti?)

 

What would be the best option to upgrade to? Prices to reflect these options would be very helpful. A quick search shows not a huge amount of difference in price between the ko3s, ko4 and gt28, but im guessing as the turbo is upgraded, there should be various upgrades made to support it?

 

the ko3s have less blades on the turbo cold side if i remember right, i think its 6 as oppose to 12 on normal ko3, thats the main easy way to tell, and the huge **** off silencor some of the ko3s's have too :lol: