How much is too much (BHP)?

[Jim 1]

I was just reading with some interest and surprise that the "hot" version of the baby Audi A1, imaginatively titled the S1, has been spotted out testing and is rumoured to be running a scarcely believable 280BHP and will be equipped with quattro.

 

I sort of have mixed feelings about it. I'm all for a bit of fun, cars getting quicker, and I do love the idea of hot hatches... but seriously, 280BHP in an Audi A1? Really? Does it not seem ridiculous to anyone else? Or am I on my own here.

[Alex_G60_Fanatic 0]

I dunno... They're not that much smaller than a C, I'm sure kev wouldn't like to go back to 280bhp.

 

Give me a 300bhp G-wiz and THEN i might start asking questions.

[Jim 1]

But the performance of the VR6 is pretty decent and that's 190BHP. Yes I'd say it needs a slug more torque and in a different place to where it currently delivers it..

 

My mates Leon Cupra is remapped to 300BHP and it's bloody ridiculous! That level of power, out of the box, on what is essentially meant to be a small city car is insanity though!

[Alex_G60_Fanatic 0]

for a FWD car i'd agree. But with the quattro on that A1 it should fly and still be pretty stable. I see no reason why you can't have 1000bhp in a car that can handle the power properly. That's the nub... If the car CAN'T plant the poweron the floor or brake from high speeds then i completely agree that power is pointless.

 

---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------

 

But the performance of the VR6 is pretty decent and that's 190BHP

pretty decent doesn't = fun btw :lol:

Edited May 18, 2011 by Alex_G60_Fanatic

[4eyes2wheels 0]

But the performance of the VR6 is pretty decent and that's 190BHP. Yes I'd say it needs a slug more torque and in a different place to where it currently delivers it..

 

I'd love to get mine on a reliable rolling road to find out what differences the DG Cams and ECU map have done to the magic numbers. There is certainly more urgency there.

[Jim 1]

Likewise. I'm hoping for over 200BHP!

[Dr Forinor 0]

I do agree with you there. I'm always talking about this with a friend saying that the amount of power these new small cars are coming out is just rediculously stupid! But then when you look at their stats, they are not as good as the power/torque would possibly suggest.

 

But yeh, it does slightly peeve me off that a crappy little Corsa now comes with more power standard than the VR6 did as standard!

[Alex_G60_Fanatic 0]

I do agree with you there. I'm always talking about this with a friend saying that the amount of power these new small cars are coming out is just rediculously stupid! But then when you look at their stats, they are not as good as the power/torque would possibly suggest.

 

But yeh, it does slightly peeve me off that a crappy little Corsa now comes with more power standard than the VR6 did as standard!

the vr6 is a 15 year old engine... things move on. Most modern performance hot hatches have forced induction anyway, There are many on here that could boast 280bhp after slapping a turbo on their vr's

[robrado974 1]

someone i know had one of them renault sport things , that was very quick , but i would say it was dangerous it was like bein in a tin can . flimsy as feck. You would not want an accident in it !

[Dr Forinor 0]

the vr6 is a 15 year old engine... things move on. Most modern performance hot hatches have forced induction anyway, There are many on here that could boast 280bhp after slapping a turbo on their vr's

 

Agreed it's due to the forced induction, but I still stick with my point that I think it's a lot of power for the feckers.

[jaded2882 0]

for a FWD car i'd agree. But with the quattro on that A1 it should fly and still be pretty stable. I see no reason why you can't have 1000bhp in a car that can handle the power properly. That's the nub... If the car CAN'T plant the poweron the floor or brake from high speeds then i completely agree that power is pointless.

 

---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------

 

pretty decent doesn't = fun btw :lol:

 

Agreed. This explains why there aren't many G-40s left around. A tin can with that much power going forward and not much to stop it was asking for trouble. I'm sure things have moved on a lot since then though.

[bristolbaron 10]

where have you got this info from? everything i can find points to a 180bhp 1.4 twin charge from the S1 which is likely to launch this year.

 

there's talk that a 2.0 tsfi would fit, but nothing to suggest it might happen in RS1 form?

[boost monkey 0]

I wouldn't call a mk3 polo G40 a tin can, or that it can't really brake either! Is this purely opinion or do you have some evidence?

 

You could say the same thing about the Corrado, based purely on the fact that you don't see many of them around any more!

[Alex_G60_Fanatic 0]

I wouldn't call a mk3 polo G40 a tin can, or that it can't really brake either! Is this purely opinion or do you have some evidence?

 

You could say the same thing about the Corrado, based purely on the fact that you don't see many of them around any more!

I've not driven a g40 polo but I have driven a quick mk3 polo before (100bhp) and it was scary. Maybe he was being a bit harsh to the poor polo's, they handled alot better than similar cars of their age (105's, nova's etc) but they still had a high centre of gravity, the body roll used to scare the poop out of me! :D

[boost monkey 0]

I've read some great technical papers from the SAE about the G40, mainly the engine as opposed to the car itself! Would definitely make a novel swap into a C! :D

[Jim Bowen 1]

a 200bhp car these days isn't as fast as a 200bhp car used to be

[coullstar 0]

So there is an S1 and RS1 coming out? Do Audi not realise they are diluting there S / RS brand to the point that its not that big a deal anymore. I really dont see the point in an RS1 TBH.

[poll250 0]

I think Audi have lost the plot a bit with the RS brand. People must be buying it though and I guess that's all that counts.

[jaded2882 0]

I wouldn't call a mk3 polo G40 a tin can, or that it can't really brake either! Is this purely opinion or do you have some evidence?

 

You could say the same thing about the Corrado, based purely on the fact that you don't see many of them around any more!

 

My mate had one. Admittedly it had the smaller pulley and remap so was quicker than vw intended, but it didn't feel as stable as a c at speed, and the brakes didn't feel up to the job. It is just my opinion but it didn't feel that safe! Great fun though!

[mimjed 0]

It will want to be 280bhp of it is 4wd, power loss through will take it down closer to 200.

 

Look at how much power scoobies lose.

 

Wouldnt ever buy an rs1 but would like to nail one round a track given the chance to.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No Jim, the most ridiculous thing about the A1 is the people who are prepared to pay the £20K asking price for a 1.6 TDI. FFS, Twenty THOUSAND pounds for a bottom rung Audi???. What is wrong with people? God knows how much the S1 is likely to cost. And there I was thinking we were in recession? It's almost like, "Say, Ulrich, what shall we charge the British for an A1?" "Oh I dunno, maybe £12K, what it's worth?" "Nah, let's try £20K, they're gullible enough to pay it, so let's exploit them".

 

Either car finance is more popular than ever, or people are just over stretching themselves keeping up with the Jones's? I don't get it.

 

Grrrrr, anyway, enough of my grunting and onto the topic at hand :D

 

I do agree with you there. I'm always talking about this with a friend saying that the amount of power these new small cars are coming out is just rediculously stupid! But then when you look at their stats, they are not as good as the power/torque would possibly suggest.

 

Sir, you have sprinkled some nails about the place and hit the head of the hammer square onto one!

 

The S1 *needs* 280hp to feel competetive. It's gonna weigh the wrong side of 1400Kg if it's sporting the Spandex 4WD kit and as we all know, 280hp + ~ 1500kg is nothing to write home about. And besides which, VAG very much enjoy their "torque strategy" mapping these days, so just because the engine can make 280hp, doesn't mean it will, all of the time. Boost will be limited a lot in the first few gears, so it won't actually feel like 280hp.

 

It'll be just like any other modern Audi, fast, smooth but doesn't blow your skirt up.

 

And Jim, if you think a VR6 is fast, you really are way behind the times, sorry fella :lol:

[Jim 1]

And Jim, if you think a VR6 is fast, you really are way behind the times, sorry fella :lol:

 

We don't all own VR turbo's mate. It's the quickest car I've ever owned and realistically more than enough for me! Of course I'd like it to be quicker though! :)

[Walesy 0]

I wouldn't call a mk3 polo G40 a tin can, or that it can't really brake either! Is this purely opinion or do you have some evidence?

 

You could say the same thing about the Corrado, based purely on the fact that you don't see many of them around any more!

 

 

You've clearly never been in one, they're lethal :lol:

 

Mine was giving 160bhp with a chip/pulley, cam etc etc and it weighed circa 750kg, insanely quick but bugger me the brakes were awful, and every time I closed the door it was a reminder of just how flimsy it was! Amazing fun though and i'd LOVE another one to play with.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

We don't all own VR turbo's mate. It's the quickest car I've ever owned and realistically more than enough for me! Of course I'd like it to be quicker though! :)

 

Neither do I any more :lol: Seriously though, I thought my VR6 was slow from the day I bought it mate, and that was coming from a D reg 325i with 230K on the clock! :lol: Like you say, it could do with some of it's 190hp being more exploitable lower in the revs. It needs 4000+ rpm or it just feels flat and uninterested, but you can't keep a VR at 4000rpm+ for long with it's silly gearing. The roads are just too crowded.

[Jim 1]

I do feel the VR comes into its own though at 100MPH+ though.. I always feel impressed at how hard it pulls from say 100MPH to 130MPH though have never gone beyond that yet.. though do plan to give it a bit of "flat out" action in Germany later this year :)